215 This confuses me.

Comments

Tom Garrett 1 year, 7 months ago

I have a problem with this, but I'm not sure the problem is sexism.

If you were introducing a bright new colleague would you say, "I want you to meet Lisa Parker, our smart, capable, and beautiful new co-worker."

Smart? Great. Nice complement. Capable? Also great. But beautiful?

What has beautiful got to do with anything?

Have you ever seen a man introduced this way? "I want you to meet John Jones, our smart, capable, and handsome new co-worker."

I write this because I just ran across an article where a woman says she had to put up with it until she asked her new boss to quit doing it. She called it sexism. I would have called it bad taste--and maybe something else.

It made me think back to a couple of times when I have worked for or with married men who chased everything in a skirt. Had I been able to do it I'd have removed the locus of the problem.

But is that sexism? Could be, but calling that seems to confuse the issue.

Enlighten me.

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Pat Randall 1 year, 7 months ago

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder?? What is beautiful or handsome to one person is a creep to the next one. Looks should not have anything to do with the job.
Take in a five foot woman weighing 200 lbs with a 5' 6" woman weighing 130lbs and see who gets hired. Doesn't matter what thier face looks like or how smart they are. Hows that for answering your question. (:

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 7 months ago

Tom, Pat is right. But are we getting so terribly politically correct. one can't even pay a personal compliment to someone without it being called one of those "isms"? Sexism. racism, chauvinism, down right stupid-ism? People really need to get a life and stop it with all this thin skinned , self pity, I've been wronged, attitude. I for one simply choose not to even associate with those who have such proclivities.

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 7 months ago

Thanks, folks. That's about the way I felt about it, but since I really don't know much about "sexist" issues I didn't know if it fitted into the category. I managed to go through 51 years of my life without ever hearing the word spoken, until I landed at Carson Junior High in Mesa and ran across a woman who thought in no terms other than those. It was so odd. Everyone on campus thought she was the planet's worst sexist, and yet she was blind to the fact that her constant harping on the subject, her ability to see something sinister in literally everything, was a flaw in her, not in the world. I used to go out of my way to make sure that she and I never occupied the same room at the same time. I was not the only one; being around her was very unleasant.

And I agree with you, Ron, particularly about racism. I guess it comes to no one's surprise after all these years that I am no racist, but I have actually seen people get all uptight, and call something "racist" when they were simply presented with a fact.

Pat,

Your comment about overweight people not being hired touches upon a truth.

And your comment about beauty being in the eye of the beholder is right on target. There is an actress that Hollywood used to tout as the most beautiful thing in the world, a woman who I thought was well made up, but by no means beautiful. I won't mention her name. I think she is gone and have no wish to speak ill of the dead.

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Pat Randall 1 year, 7 months ago

Tom, I have seen it happen many times when overweight people were not hired when they were the most qualified. We had several business and we hired on qualifications. We had good workers. Some people said we had fat farms. Most of them were thin and had no jobs.

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Kim Chittick 1 year, 7 months ago

Overall, I agree with all of you, although, to be honest, the whole, "smart, capable, and beautiful new co-worker." comment irritates me. Here's an idea: Why not introduce me by name and allow others to form their own opinion as to my intelligence, capability and beauty. If someone needs to have their attributes announced to the world, or if someone else feels compelled to announce those attributes, immediately upon introduction, then those attributes must not be very outstanding. Allow, or expect me to prove myself. To me, an introduction of this type smacks of condescencion and patronization. Almost as if the introducer is subtly attempting to diminish the professionalism of the introducee.

With regard to sexual harassment: In my opinion, most of the complaints are just hogwash. In all honesty, under the current definition and parameters of "sexual harassment", I, personally, am probably guilty of it. When people look good, men or women, I tell them. Also, admittedly, I have an exceedingly bawdy sense of humor. I love to have fun and am pretty quick-witted. I could go on, but I think that most of you get the idea. The thing is: I only behave in that manner with equals, peers, colleagues, friends, and if I am aware that someone would not appreciate that aspect of my personality, I adjust accordingly.

I can state unequivocally that I have NEVER behaved in such a manner with or to, a subordinate, someone who came under my supervision, who was beholden to me for their livelihood. In my opinion, THAT constitutes "sexual harassment". When a superior, behaves in such a way, overtly, or subtly, that leads a subordinate to feel that their very livelihood would be in jeopardy were they to rebuff advances or object to comments, that, to me, is truly "sexual harassment", and is not to be allowed, permitted or condoned.

On the other hand, if an equal, co-worker, colleague, etc. is out of line, I would tell them to keep their comments or hands or whatever to themselves, ONCE. If the behavior continued, I would report it to a superior. My handling of it would only escalate, if they chose to not respect my boundaries.

In my opinion, all of these knee jerk complaints of the "-ism's", could be alleviated by a generous dollop of common sense.

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Pat Randall 1 year, 7 months ago

What really bothers me is the the kids in school 4th grade and below that have been accused of sexual harassement, and kicked out of school or worse. Criminal charges brought against them. I know kids now days are a lot sex smarter than I was at that age but they are still kids and don't really know that what they are doing is illegal if a boy touches a girl on the arm in the first grade. Wasn't there a law just passed for male and females to use the same restrooms?

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Kim Chittick 1 year, 7 months ago

Exactly Pat!! Why, is there any person alive, over the age of perhaps 25, who never played doctor? Or who never said, "I'll show you mine if you show me yours"? Who never played "truth or dare"? Or Spin the Bottle? Or Ex Relieveo? Who never "went to first, second or third base" on a date?

Although, you make an excellent point: I hear about girls getting pregnant now at age 13, holy cow, I was still playing with Barbies at 13!!

It is a very sad and different world!

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 7 months ago

I forgot something yesterday. It was a memory prompted by Kim's comment about 13 year olds. In 1945, when I was 13, I remember reading an article in the New London day about two kids who were playing together in Peru. One was a 12 year old little girl; the other a 6 year old little boy. They showed a picture. Believe it or not, the boy was the girl's son, born in 1939.

I wondered if there would be any way to find information about that. Amazingly enough--good old internet!--here are two links. Each of them will astound you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

http://www.oddee.com/item_90966.aspx

See? It's amazing what happens when you are old and have a good memory. :-)

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Pam Mason 1 year, 7 months ago

Appreciated all of your comments. A good sense of humor can come in handy if as mentioned by Kim " an equal, co-worker, colleague, etc. is out of line," A good one liner said while laughing as in "I've told you before I'm fed up, not hard up" seemed to work :-) As they say in England "We just need to use our common."

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 7 months ago

I always hated guys who were constantly hitting on everything in sight. There was one clown back in Mesa--married, of course--who could be seen chatting up anything in the building at any time of day. It was so obvious I wondered how his boss was unaware of it. The boss seemed like a decent guy. Had it been me I'd have fired the jerk out of hand, but he was still there when I left.

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