Why is PSWID still out of control number 2

Comments

Pat Randall 1 year, 2 months ago

Tom, If you object to this erase me. I am tired of spending my time trying to get to the end of the string.

I just finished reading all 48 pages of Rules and Regulations of PSWID. First a question, are they under any state, or county agency, are they a corp. or what? After reading it, seems the Gestapo is in charge. No wonder the board acts the way they do. Any property buyer thinking of buying in the area should read all 48 pages before they sign anything to buy in the area that is serviced by that water co. and sign a paper that they have read it. How many of you posters have read all 48 pages?

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Tom, If you object to this erase me. I am tired of spending my time trying to get to the end of the string.

You mean rub you out? I don't think they let us do that. :-)

"First a question, are they under any state, or county agency, are they a corp. or what?"

They are a public utility that falls under Gila County.

"How many of you posters have read all 48 pages?"

I haven't. Has anyone else?

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

It is a real wake up. Read It and regroup. Won't be long before they will be walking in your house, standing at the shower door timing how long it takes you to shower.

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Where did you get it, Pat. Is it on the PSWID site?

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat, I have not read the Rules and Regulations. However, I will now. I would like to know who or what regulates the piping that will be installed in any new subdivisions, will new piping be installed by developlers, if so who will inspect them to make sure we are getting the right stuff.

Also, my fear is that since Gila County Planning and Zoning does not take water availability into account when approving new subdivisions, will Pine/Strawberry eventually find itself water strapped again? In other words does PSWID have any say in setting water requirements for new subdivisions? If PSWID doesn't have any say, what can be done to get a say? Do you think PSWID should take actions to control new development approval?

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

Tom. I got it from one of the web sites you had in a post. I was going to print it off but didn't want to use 48 pages of paper and ink. Sorry. Seems everyone that has so much to say on here about the board they would have read all the rules and regulations.

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

You are correct, Pat, I should and will read the rules and regulations. I know that they have been working on revising them. I hope we are reading and studying the latest edition of the rules and regs. :-0

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

Bernice, Is it the board that is revising them? Seems the land owners would be able to read and vote on them. Do you know who wrote the first ones and approved them?

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat,

"Seems the land owners would be able to read and vote on them."

Nice thought.

As to overdevelopment, one of my original objections to the purchase of the water company was that it would take us out of the protective control of the ACC, which did a very good job where that was concerned, water being such a major issue in Arizona. However, I do not intend to beat a dead horse; the people spoke when they voted and that's that.

Frankly, I do not know what can or should be done to get some oversight back in the process. Perhaps when the current flack is ended people might sit down and form some kind of advisory committee to the board; but perhaps that's a lousy idea. Perhaps the county itself should adopt some kind of policy; but that's probably a pipe dream considering the fact that Gila County has never shown any desire to control growth. Perhaps we can get someone to buy the water company and get us back under the protective wing of the ACC now that our water supply is supposed to be so guaranteed; but that too may be something coming out of the intake end of an opium pipe.

Perhaps I'll just quit making this post any longer.

Hey! Something I can do!

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

I believe that the original Rules and Regs were supplied by the attorney, Gliege, who was the attorney for PSWID when the water companies were purchased. The board is revising them and has done so at public meetings.

I believe the original Rules and Regs were "one size fits all" and the revised ones are supposed to be more particular to the needs and operation of PSWID.

I would have to go back through PSWID minutes to determine exactly when the Rules and Regs were adopted.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

Next PSWID meeting is this Thursday, September 12, 2013 beginning at 6:00pm at the PSWID Office at 6306 W. Hardscrabble Road in Pine. Rules and Regulations are on the agenda.

I read the existing Rules and Regulations document and attended some of the meetings when proposed changes were discussed. As per compliance to said document ..... a recent main line extension to the boundary of a developers property was not billed to the developer, the public paid for it. Likewise adherence to the Conflict of Interest clause, Procurement and the award of a large generator contract is under investigation as is the accusation of misuse of public funds. The attendance of a PSWID lawyer at every PSWID meeting is likely to be voted in as mandatory.

I can't make the meeting due to cough/cold but I hope others can.

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

Everyone that is unhappy, get together and hire your own attorney to attend the meetings, that might clean things up real quick. (:

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

Pam, I am sorry that you have a cold. I thought the PSWID Board usually met on the 3rd Thursday. Should change of regular meeting dates be announced, especially since they complain about lack of attendance. I will go to the meeting.

Hope you are feeling better soon.

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Aha! See? What have I been telling you? All this high-flown nonsense about spend millions of our tax dollars and increasing our water bills is for the purpose of development — AT OUR EXPENSE!

Pack that meeting, folks!

Get in there and demand that such things stop! Tell the board we want no more money given away to developers!

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John Naughton 1 year, 1 month ago

Ms. Mason I'm not certain I understand your comment above would you clarify as to who and where?

"As per compliance to said document ..... a recent main line extension to the boundary of a developers property was not billed to the developer, the public paid for it."

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

Mr. Naughton, as cutting and pasting takes up a lot of room would you prefer that I just reference documents? Kind regards,

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John Naughton 1 year, 1 month ago

Ms. Mason, Whatever is convenient for you. Perhaps you could attach the document to an email and send it to publisher@payson.com.

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

Didn't the attorney Mr. Gliege own property in the Pine Strawberry area when he was attorney for PSWID when all the problems started?

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

No need for me to comment here. I'll wait until I see the clarification.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

Tonight I submitted to Mr. Naughton some documentation. Kind regards to all.

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

I don't know if Gliege owned any property in the area.

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

I would say most people haven't done their homework, only get on here and gripe and moan. Do something, either do some research, recall the board, shut up, or move. By research I don't mean meet at the the post office and gossip about the water problems. Get your facts from the right places, written and stamped. It should all be a matter of public record. If not you have a bigger problem than you know. Ever think of conflict of interest?

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat, you ask interesting questions.

Since you own a place up here you are eligible to run for the board. Interested?

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat, with reference to your question concerning the former PSWID Lawyer the late Mr. Gliege, I think you maybe thinking about PS Water LLC. ACC File# L-1341072-0 Back in 2007 Mr. Gliege was the Agent and the members/management were Diane Peterson, Loren Peterson and Stephanie Gliege (daughter of Mr. Gliege) Location 4455 N. Strawberry Hollow, Pine.

Later on the board purchased a well from Strawberry Hollow often referred to as SH3.

Hope this answers your question.

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

Pam, do you remember the name of the attorney that represented PSWID after Gliege?

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

Tom, No I am not interested. I don't play well with others. I don't care what they do. If I want water again, I will drill a well.

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

I should have been clearer -- the name of the attorney after both of the Glieges and before the current attorney

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

David Davis who also represented Jim Hill before ACC etc.

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat,

I thought about drilling a well for a while there. It wouldn't have cost all that much, and since I am down on the flat where the water table is so close to the surface it would not have had to be deep. At about the time that PSWID was making the arrangement for the K-2 well I finally decided it wouldn't be needed. Of course, the costs of drilling would never have balanced out the costs of just staying with Brook Utilities, but I really disliked Brook. They were doing things that rubbed me the wrong way. Just look at the reports we are getting from Mesa Del. If they are correct then state law was violated in a big way, and someone should be prosecuted for it.

I was opposed to buying the water company because I could see that it was a losing proposition as far as the numbers were concerned, and time has proven me right there. But getting rid of Brook was a breath of fresh air. If only things hadn't gone south with the board where being up front with the residents is concerned. There's not reason for conflict in two small towns of our size. What the hell is there to argue about? It's our water company and we should be able to run it the way we want. What's so complicated about that?

I really hate all this. I do not see why it had to happen.

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat,

I thought about drilling a well for a while there. It wouldn't have cost all that much, and since I am down on the flat where the water table is so close to the surface it would not have had to be deep. At about the time PSWID was making the arrangement for the K-2 well I finally decided it wouldn't be needed. Of course, the costs of drilling would never have balanced out the costs of just staying with Brook Utilities, but I REALLY disliked Brook. They were doing things that rubbed me the wrong way. Just look at the reports we are getting from Mesa Del. If they are correct then state law was violated in a big way, and someone should be prosecuted for it.

I was opposed to buying the water company because I could see that it was a losing proposition as far as the numbers were concerned, and time has proven me right. But getting rid of Brook was a breath of fresh air and I said right her on the forum that we should ll stand behind the result of the recall election. If only things hadn't gone south with the board after that. There's not reason for conflict in two small towns of our size. What the hell is there to argue about? It's our water company and we should be able to know exactly what is going on and why. What's so complicated about that?

I really hate all this. I do not see why it had to happen. I tried several times on this forum to pour oil on troubled waters, but never got anywhere. Every time I thought I was about to make some progress somebody asked a question at a board meeting and got hammered for it, and the whole mess started up again. I was about to try to interview some of the board members, got delayed because Lolly had a setback, and by the time that was over the Mike Greer thing came up and blew the lid off.

I knew then that there was nothing I could do, so I just gave up. And come to think of it, that was back in December, nine months ago. When are we going to get some closure on that? If what was reported to have happened, and public funds were actually used for private purposes, then wasn't a crime committed? Are we never going to hear more about that?

Loose ends. Loose ends. Unanswered questions. All over the place. For years. When are they going to be tied up so we can put them behind us?

There is some kind of underlying problem which creates all this conflict. What it is I do not know, and do not care to speculate about. We need to find that underlying problem, whatever it is, rid ourselves of it, and get back to being friends and neighbors.

Good lord! How many of us are there? We are small enough so that we could almost go to a town meeting method instead of a board (which I am by NO means suggesting!) and have more peace and quiet.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

" a recent main line extension to the boundary of a developers property was not billed to the developer, the public paid for it." My answer is as follows: The developer is a Mr. Jim (James) Hill and his wife Sioux Hill. They joined the action taken up before the ACC in 2009 with other developers v Pine Water Company. The location of the main line extension is south of Whispering Pines Rd and east of Highway 87 in Pine. .

Some history. On 2/3/2010 PSWID board heard a presentation about leasing a well (nr. Portal IV) owned by Mr. Jim Hill in exchange for PSWID installing a water line to his property at the south end of town. Ref. PSWID minutes 2/3/2010 and Water For Pine Strawberry summary 2/18/2010. The board did not enter into a lease agreement with Mr. Hill..

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

PSWID Supplemental Water Committee Meeting 1/20/2011. 8. New Business Discuss the Development of the Jim Hill Well. Jim Hill was present to discuss the progress of water in his area. He said, that with the hook up of his pipes to the district pipes, his immediate concerns will be resolved. He suggests that future drilling on his property may be beneficial for the PSWID as well as for his property development. Jim's other well close to the new Portals 4 well can produce up to 30-40 gpm but only pumps 5 gpm right now. He is offering this well for free the only thing he would like is to have a meter at his other property. PSWID Supplemental Water Committee Meeting 2/10/2011. 6. New Business. Development of Jim Hill Well and consideration of new well projects. Jim Hill was not at the meeting and no new well drilling projects are being considered at this time.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

PSWID Proposed Budget Presentation for Fiscal Year 7/1/2012 to 6/30/2013. Dated 2/23/12 Slide says:" Proposed Capital Expenditure. Budget Item 10 - Distribution Piping and Mains. Project 10A NEW - Whispering Pines South - $40,000 This project will enhance service to existing and future customers south of Whispering Pines Rd and east of Highway 87. At present, existing customers are receiving marginal pressures and volumes and have to coordinate their use water. (should say use of water). The new pipeline will be sized to serve existing customers and potential others on an adjacent 40 acres of undeveloped land (Jim Hill development). This pipeline will be installed by an outside contractor." NOTE: PSWID make reference to Jim Hill development. Later on they would drop the Jim Hill development reference and stick to SR87 Water Main Extension. Where the main line ext. project was undertaken, there are several family homes, and I heard first hand that over the years they had never had problems with water pressure or had to coordinate their use of water, contrary to the verbal and written statements made.

Project Overview. This project consists of the construction of approx. 1,050 lineal feet of 6" water main south of Whispering Pines Rd within the east right of way of SR87. Work shall include tapping the existing water main, removing and replacing pavement, valves, services, and other items as shown on the plans."

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

The contract was awarded to McCauley Construction out of Winslow for $43,980. Project was originally budgeted for $40,000. District had already spent an additional $6,354. Engineering drawings, plans and applications to ADOT etc. would have been part of the process.

PSWID Rules and Regulations Article III. General conditions governing water connections, security deposits and use. I will reference some parts of this section that jump out at me.

AIII, Section 2.1 .... and has paid all fees required by the District to accompany said application and said application has been approved by the proper District authorities. All connections to the District shall be made pursuant to any rules, regulations, or resolutions pertaining to the payment of connection fees.

AIII, Section 3. Customer Applications for Service AIII, Section 3.1 ......and at that time make a Security Deposit along with the payment of all fees required to be paid as a condition of connection to the water system, including, but not limited to: meter fees, meter deposits, connection fees, impact fees, availability fees, any fee previously assessed against the parcel of property and not paid, property taxes, as well as the costs of planning, engineering and constructing the extension or alteration of any and all wells, storage facilities, pumps, pressure tanks, or water lines and other related appurtenant facilities necessary to provide water service to the parcel of property for which service is being applied.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

In addition, the Applicant shall pay to the District all administrative fees and legal fees incurred by the District in the processing of said application or the preparation of any and all agreements and documents necessitated thereby. At the time of the application, the District shall determine whether or not any additional facilities as set forth above must be constructed or improved to provide water service to the Applicant's property*. All agreements between the Applicants and the District must be in writing and fully executed by the Board and the Property Owner(s).
All plans and engineering drawings shall be prepared by the District or by others at it's direction and paid for by the Applicant
* and shall be the property of the District.

AIII, Section 3.3 The District reserves the right to upgrade any water line to the size necessary to serve additional lots that are not currently being served but will be served by that line when such lots are developed. The Applicant shall pay the full costs of the Plans, materials and construction for such an upgraded line, but the District agrees to collect and remit to the Applicant, the pro rata share of the upgrade cost from each lot being served by the upgraded line at such time as each lot applies for and receives water service for a period of ten years from the date of acceptance of the constructed facilities by the District. The District does not guarantee that such lots will ever apply for or qualify to receive water service.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

AIII, Section 3.4 The District reserves the right to combine planning and construction for the improvements necessary to serve Applicant with other infrastructure improvements and to allocate the total costs for the Plans, materials, equipment and construction between the Applicant and the District on a reasonable pro rata basis.


Comments: At no time was it mentioned that Mr. Hill would be contributing towards the costs of the plans, materials, equipment and construction for the upgraded main line extension. If Mr. Hill had made any payment towards the costs involved of the main line extension, the Board would have gone to great lengths to tell us so. If the board should say or indeed promise that the developer will pay a portion as and when the development takes place, that is not what the Rules and Regulations say should happen. Therefore it is PSWID (us) that are paying all the costs upfront for the main line extension.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

Tom, with reference to the investigation being undertaken by the Arizona Auditor General's office we should not hold our breath for a report anytime soon. I noticed a case online that was started in April of 2010, for an alleged misuse of public monies within a school district and the final report and summary was not issued by the Auditor General's office until August of this year.

Okay I'm done!

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

If Jim Hill did not sign any agreement, forget about him paying anything. The way it is written I certainly wouldn't have signed it.

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Pam Mason 1 year, 1 month ago

The Rules and Regulations document exists for a reason. It does not say the authorities can decide to pick and choose which rules to enforce or not enforce, no matter who it is. If someone buys 40 acres and wishes to develop that property but it does not have a water line to the property boundary why should the public alone have to pay for a main line extension?
AIII, Section 3.4 The District reserves the right to combine planning and construction for the improvements necessary to serve Applicant with other infrastructure improvements and to allocate the total costs for the Plans, materials, equipment and construction between the Applicant and the District on a reasonable pro rata basis.

.

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

I have to agree with Pam, of course.

Where rules and regulations exist they have the force of law and are binding upon all concerned. They cannot be ignored.

In this case it appears that the rules and regulations were not followed. We need some answers.

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

Tom, Since when did that apply to water companies in Pine before? Check every case. I know things that went on before 1984. Who made up the rules and regulations? In my opinion I don't think there is one legal water supplier in the whole area up there.

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat, PSWID has Rules and Regulations by which it is supposed to operate. Those Rules and Regulations are there so that everyone is playing on an even field. We all know that certain unfair and unethical things went on before the purchase of the water companies. However, I do hope that all that money this was spent and is being spent at least did away with the type of things that went on before the purchase.

I would like to hear PSWID's side of this story. Wouldn't you?

No more favoritism!!!!!

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Pat Randall 1 year, 1 month ago

From what I have read about PSWID they don't want to talk and won't let anyone ask questions or make statements at meetings. So lots of luck on that one.

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Bernice Winandy 1 year, 1 month ago

I think this time they will have to talk. I guess we will just have to wait and see. :-)

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Tom Garrett 1 year, 1 month ago

Pat, Bernice is right. PSWID itself wrote the rules, so it's an interesting question why they are violating them.

And you are both right when you say that what has caused the mess we are in is an unwillingness to answer simple questions of fact. That plus some of the board members yelling at the very people who elected them.

Why? Because they dared to ask a question?

Some of the board members even yell at other board members who ask a question. Explain that.

But the worst part, the real eye opener, the part that sickened me — and everyone else I suppose — was when Tom Weeks discovered that public funds were being used for private purposes and said so during an open meeting. The response should have been a pat on the back from every honest person who heard what he said.

But what did he get? Yelled at. Punished. Reviled.

Think of what would have happened if Tom hadn't done that? If he hadn't had the honesty and integrity to make public some that would bring criticism to a board of which he was a member? Would we ever have know about it? I doubt it. Would it have continued? What was there to stop it? Would it have worsened? Could be. Consider which board member was the Treasurer.

But Tom DID stand up. He did his duty. And got yelled at and punished for it.

That kind of thing must never happen again. We need to get together and make sure that it doesn't. God help us if we don't.

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