Wednesday August 24, 2016
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I know we are talking about this on another string, but did you read the letter from Eva James about the proposed four additional roundabouts in Payson?
She says, in part, "It is a crapshoot with traffic circle, at traffic lights there are definite rules and it is safer all around. Please do not install another traffic circle guessing game in Payson putting drivers in jeopardy."
Want to know why the powers-that-be have decided that roundabouts are part of our future?
Because they are cheaper than doing what should be done.
And what is that?
Bypasses for once deserted rural roads that have become major highways and no longer belong inside small towns.
ADOT will quote safety stats at you to "prove" that roundabouts are the solution.
You know what that says? It says that they do not care about YOU. They know you hate the %$#@! roundabouts, but they'd rather spend their budget on other things.
I don't know. Higher salaries?
Look at it this way: Down in the Valley, where city roads have to handle MILLIONS of drivers, and rush hour traffic that is sometimes hard to believe, traffic lights handle the flow of traffic just fine.
So why are they not the correct solution here, where the speeds are lower and the number of cars fewer?
Answer? ADOT could not care less about you; they are interested only in fobbing off an antiquated, white knuckle, 19th century solution to traffic control, one that literally every major and mid-size city in the nation rid themselves of 40 to 50 years ago.
Show me a roundabout in Phoenix! Show me a roundabout in Mesa! Show me a roundabout in Glendale! Show me a roundabout in Scottsdale! Show me a roundabout in Tucson! Show me a roundabout in Tempe! Show me a roundabout in Prescott, Chandler, Flagstaff, or Gilbert. Show me a roundabout in any major or midsize city in Arizona!
You are being had by venal self-serving politicians. You are being treated like second class citizens.
Don't stand for it! Start yelling at state politicians who allow it! It is your road, your state, and your choice!
I guess you don't like roundabouts.
However, the best ones are/were in Boston, Massachusetts. My husband and I got caught in one of those in that famed city years ago. Luckily, we were able to get "spun out" otherwise our kids who were not with us, would have been orphans, or we would still be going round and round. What a ride!!!!!
O, by the way there is at least two that I know of in Peoria, AZ. Maybe they were talking to the same ADOT official. :-)
Bernice and Tom,
I think maybe you should start with the powers that be in Payson about the roundabouts.
If it was really ADOT's idea there wouldn't be the other two roundabouts in town. One near the Police station and the other out near the school that was sold. ADOT had nothing to do with them.
"Show me a roundabout in Phoenix! Show me a roundabout in Mesa! Show me a roundabout in Glendale! Show me a roundabout in Scottsdale! Show me a roundabout in Tucson! " Tom, you need to get out more. If you use Google Earth you will find these few at least that you imply are not there. Two Round-abouts in Sedona on 87A, two at the 202 and E. McKellips Rd, and two at the 202 and Brown. There are many more, especially in Scottsdale, but I won't bother you with all the locations. They are "in" right now for some reason, and I suspect it has little to do solely with ADOT and their motives.
Also it might interest you to read the whole report, but this excerpt is from a study report that is being done in the planning stage for round-abouts in Tucson.
"The first modern roundabouts in the United States were constructed in Nevada in 1990.
Since that time, although a precise number is not available, approximately 2,000 have
been built. By comparison there are about 20,000 roundabouts in France, 15,000 in
Australia, and 10,000 in the United Kingdom.
Thirty-one States in the U.S. have active programs to construct roundabouts.1 Three
years ago, Arizona had two roundabouts, now it has around 17, with 23 more under
construction according to the Arizona Department of Transportation. Modern
roundabouts in New York tripled since 2006, from 16 to 53.2
Several studies conducted by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety and others have
reported significant improvements in traffic flow following conversion of traditional
intersections to roundabouts. A study of three intersections in Kansas, Maryland, and
Nevada, where roundabouts replaced stop signs, found that vehicle delays were
reduced 13-23 percent and the proportion of vehicles that stopped was reduced 14-
A study of three locations in New Hampshire, New York, and Washington, where
roundabouts replaced traffic signals or stop signs, found an 89 percent average
reduction in vehicle delays and a 56 percent reduction in vehicle stops.4"
Simply Google "Intersection round-abouts in Tucson.
Oh! And Happy New Year everyone!
I think the roundabouts in Payson are much nicer looking than stop lights. They also emphasize the rural look.
"I guess you don't like roundabouts."
Actually, in the right places they don't bother me at all. I've seen the ones in Paris and London, and have driven them. They served a good purpose. We had two of them in New London, both very small — 25 feet in diameter on small roads — and they worked very well. They've been taken out since the city grew larger.
What I DON'T like is officials who justify their laziness and unwillingness to listen to the people by using spurious statistics!!!
Right, Bernice. Peoria and other small, powerless towns like Payson get stuck with roundabouts. I understand that there are now EIGHT of them on the way in to Sedona.
"Two Round-abouts in Sedona on 87A." I'll see your 2 and raise you 7. Check this from Mapquest: "How to get from PHX to Sedona, Step 6. Turn left onto AZ-179 N. Pass through 9 roundabouts.
Get that? NINE of the %$#@! things! There are so man of them people are calling it the Uh-Oh Highway (spelled O-O) because you just get through one and there's another one.
I knew about the ones in Scottsdale. I really meant BIG roundabouts like the ones we have and the ones ADOT has put in up near Sedona.
And you're dead right! I don't get around much anymore. :-)
I also know about the studies. They're what I'm so angry about. The stats show fewer "stops" but so what? Naturally there are fewer "stops" when you take out stops signs and lights, BUT the very same studies also show that people HATE the %$#@! things! And with good reason. Go read what is being said up in Sedona.
It's an imposition on the little guy, plain and simple, another example of a Nanny government that thinks we're all too dumb to think for ourselves.
You know the best road to drive through Payson? Colcord. Why? Four way stops. been driving that road for 15 years and have yet to see a problem.
Thanks for the Happy New Year, Ron. Right back at you!
Same to everyone else.
Tom, you referred to Peoria as small. With a population of 159,789, Peoria isn't exactly small. Although that population doesn't make it large either. I guess you could call it a large, small town.
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