Sunday May 24, 2015
Jump to content
This morning someone said something that really made me think.
The horrendous shooting in Connecticut.
A shooting in the Excalibur Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas.
A teenager with a plan to shoot fellow students and blow up a building in Bartlesville, Oklahoma.
A shooting at Fashion Island in Costa Mesa, California.
All of these horrible events have occurred in the last 36 hours.
It has been postulated that if someone were trying to get anti-gun laws passed, these incidents would go a long way towards turning sentiment in that direction.
Now, I have just seen a story in the AP about a man in Indiana who had a cache of 47 guns and copious amounts of ammunition. On Friday, he threatened to set his wife on fire and then go to the local elementary school and "kill as many people as possible".
All of these incidents coming so close together, and all involving guns just seems too coincidental to me.
I know it is easy to jump on some "conspiracy" by those seeking to advance gun control, but one needs the factual evidence of such a thing before one can proceed down that road. I don't think the full scope of such behavior as you have pointed to has every been fully brought out in this debate. Certainly there are people who can gain access to firearms who shouldn't. I know no person who doesn't agree with that . That is only the entry point of the debate and not the summation. The larger issue is how do we differentiate between those who shouldn't and those who are responsible citizens simply exercising their right of self protection and a Constitutional right as well.?
One of the more common remarks from the "ban all guns" group is that Americans have way to easy access to firearms. They will base their entire premise of the ban mentality on that one point. As a percentage of the population, fewer Americans have firearms in their homes today, than let's say back at the turn of the century. Most had some type of firearm in their homes. Yet we didn't have these types of incidents in those decades. No, something else is at play here and few seem to want to confront the truth of it.
At 70 years of age I personally can fairly put my finger on the period in my life when I saw things starting to go South. And yes it had a lot to do with Mary Madellin O'Hare, the move to remove any vestage of God from our social institutions, especially schools. Then came Roe v. Wade. How can one place a value on ANY life if it is deemed legal to kill the innocent unborn? That is hypocracy beyond imagination. Understand that for the last 50 years we have generations that have been taught there is no moral right or wrong. No black and white. It is all "relative". Since we cannot accept any religion in the "public square" then there is no basis for the origins of fundamental morality. Oh, they say morality is a basic human attribute. Then they turn around and say we are nothing more than evolved animals. Animals have no moral characteristics. Well it seems society has definately become more animalistic since we crossed that line in the sand back in the early 60's.
One thing we need to look at as a society, is what are the things of the past that worked well for us and those that didn't. Those that "worked" to help maintain or establish the "law of social order" and that we relegated to the dustbins of history under the guise of "Progressivism" should be reintroduced. Those things that didn't work then and don't work now should be discouraged at all levels, be unacceptable within society. In all honesty, if we are "evolving" as the scientific worshippers suggest, might I say that it certainly isn't for the better. Give me "that old time religion". Right and wrong were much easier to discern then and most people were quick to tell you when you were doing wrong. Now we simply make excuses for anti-social behavior. Pity. We know what we lost, but are hell bent on proceeding down this dispicable road anyway.
Ron, a major Ditto that, from me. This nations moral compass has been deliberately and deviously altered. The ten commandments for example. What a simple set of principaled civilized guidlines to try and practice in daily life. Revrence for family, for strangers, love, and respect for life etc. Ten simple easily understood principals and goals. Yet, they are now cast aside as an embarassment. The new golden rule is there are no limits on self indulgence. And look what we have done to ourselve's and our country. There is no respect for life, only for setting new debase limits which are to be continualy challenged with the goal of having no limits on one's behavior. Brick by brick it's coming down. And, the daily news headlines report the results of all our efforts to deny and ignore those ten simple rules.
I think the media and people wanting their 15 minutes of fame have a lot to do with it.
Television and movies are bad examples for people now days.
I guess we can blame Clark Gable for saying damn in Gone with the Wind.
The more news coverage that is given on things that happened on Friday gives the nut cases ideas. Tell the story once and let it go. Wait until they have the full story then tell it. Don't keep showing the same pictures over and over and changing the story every 15 minutes.
One of my roles during my fire service career was as Public Information Officer (PIO). As such I had many dealings with the press. The old adage of "If it bleeds, it leads" is as true today as it was back when I interacted with those folks. They are NOT objective journalists as they would have you believe, who simply report the facts as they are. Can't tell you the number of "incidents" I was on that they reported about on the news. You could hardly tell it was the same event/incident to see how they "massaged it" for their viewers and readers. I have very little respect for the media as an industry. When we returned from working the Oklahoma Murrah Federal Building bombing, the local LA news organizations were there in force to "greet" us. Most of our people didn't want to talk about what we had seen and done, and since they (media) could not get "their pound of flesh", they wrapped up all their equipment and left the scene. Never even mentioned our service to the folks in Oklahoma on their news reports. Don't want to paint everyone of them with the same brush, but as the old saying goes "the 98% of them give the rest a bad name".
We are very fortunate to have some quality folks at the Roundup. I must say I admire Mr. Naughton for not submitting to those who would stifle the free expression of thought and opinion. Not everyone has that "freedom" and forces are at work to take it from us.
You go Ron, You're right on. Freedom, true freedom is learning how to live with yourself without disturbing others. And allowing others to infringe on your freedom until you point out the infringement.
"I can ask you to allow me my freedom, but i can't impose my request upon you."
Republicans understand that but Democrats don't seem to these days.
Kennedy understood. JFK. If he were alive today he'd be a Republican and if you think I'm wrong go back and read his own words.
WE as a people seem to have lost our moral center. That place where we place the pin, attach the string and allow all the lines to go out spiraling to infinity. Realizing that it all begins and ends with us. We are the beginning and the end, The Alpha and the Omega and....IF IT IS TO BE, IT IS UP TO ME.
Evidently I need to clarify my comment. I personally do not believe in all of this "gun control" nonsense; and the last thing that I am is a conspiracy theorist. However, I will say that with all of these gun related incidents occuring and being reported on so widely, in such a short amount of time, I think that the liberal main stream media is hopping on these stories to further their agenda. I don't think that there are any more gun related incidents occuring than usual, I just think that main stream media is searching them out from across the country and nationalizing them.
Case in point: Have any of you heard about the incident that occurred in October I think, when a gunman entered a school, I believe it was in Mississippi, armed with multiple weapons intent on doing harm. As the story went, the Principal had a ccw, and he stopped the gunman before any harm was done. Did any of you hear about it? No, because that would not support MSM's agenda of pushing for gun control.
As for where the responsibilty for the Connecticut massacre lies...in my opinion it lies squarely on the shoulders of the shooter. Perhaps the mother bears some culpability, as she knew of her son's mental illness and still had guns to which he had access, in their home. However, she kept his problems secret, as though they were shameful.
As a society we need to stop making excuses for people and their bad behavior. And we need to start expecting people to take responsibility for their actions and behavior. Enough with the "I cheated on my wife and got caught, I must be a sex addict and therefore need sympathy and rehab because I am sick" and "I knowingly and willingly drank copious amounts of alcohol and did insane amounts and kinds of drugs and tore up a hotel room and beat someone badly, Oh, I need rehab and sympathy" and, of course my favorite, "I was abused, adopted, abandoned as a child, therefore, I have an all encompassing excuse for behaving badly".
We all, each and every one of us has/had bad or unpleasant things happen to us in our lives, however, most of us do not use that as an excuse to behave badly. We don't need gun control or rehab, or more, or better counseling, or more understanding, or sympathy or empathy, or a prescription for medical marijuana or adderal or valium. What we need is a society which expects, demands and exercises personal accountability.
How many people are stabbed to death every day? No big deal to the media.
There are many things people use as murder weapons but do we hear about all of them? NO
There are probably more than 30 people murdered in one way or another every day.
Look around the room you are in and think about how many things are there that could be used as a weapon.
Aaaah, I found it...My details were off, memory is the first to go, you know!! But I knew that I had seen a short list of instances where gun carrying law abiding citizens had prevented tragedy. How many of these were reported in the main stream media??
Did you know.....
• A 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, Miss., was halted by the school's vice principal after he retrieved the Colt .45 he kept in his truck.
• A 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun.
• A 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard.
• A 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Va., came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter.
• A 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah, ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened.
• A 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas, was halted by two coworkers who carried concealed handguns.
• A 2012 church shooting in Aurora, Colo., was stopped by a member of the congregation carrying a gun.
• At the recent mall shooting in Portland, Ore., the gunman took his own life minutes after being confronted by a shopper carrying a concealed weapon. 2500 times last year alone legal gun owners stopped violent crime when confronted with it long before any police assistance ...
No intent to label you as a conspiracy theorist, but when some start tying several reports together, it seems to imply that's the direction they're headed in. I don't think you could be any more correct in your observation that the media selectively reports on whatever will support or promote their agenda. And th agenda of the current mainstrem media could not be mor transpairent. I sense that is a major reason they have lost most of their credibility.The important thing I think is that people are now very aware of those biases and take what is put out as "News" with a certain scepticism.
And as to your other points, Dan and I see things pretty much through the same prism. Ultimately it falls to us, individually, to take responsibility for our actions and behavior individually and therefore, collectively. I have no specific facts that would support my view as to when this nation started down this slippery slope of apathy and moral turbidity, but darn well can point to several instances that promoted the diversion away from this nation's traditional moral foundations. But, so I don't get accused of being a "Bible Thumper" I will simply say that I have read the book that tells of these very events occurring and therefore they are of little surprise to me even as much as I would like to interject myself into the fray and turn the present course around.
Ya know Ron, I am proud to be considered a "Bible thumper", if that means that I believe in morals, values, ethics and integrity, If that means that I believe in, and answer to a higher power, If that means that I exercise, expect and demand personal accountability, then, yes, I guess that I would be considered a "Bible thumper".
However, there is one aspect of being a Christian that I cannot embrace, and that is the trait of "turning the other cheek". I grow weary of being the one who has to sit back and being a good Christian, keep my mouth shut when my beliefs, my religion, my Bible and my actions are belittled, legislated against and scorned.
I very proudly and loudly wish one and all a MERRY CHRISTMAS, and if there is someone who doesn't like it, they are welcome to be on their way, merry or not.
Kim, far be it for me to speak on behalf of God, but my interpretation of "turn the other cheek' is so you can look for something to smash the hell out of someone that has hurt you. I'm just sayin... :-)
Aaaah Jane, a woman after my own heart!!!
Posting comments requires a free account