Thursday September 3, 2015
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Today, I was able to determine approx. how much of our Payson Public Municipal Water is being pumped into the private utility company tanker truck and delivered to Mesa Del for their customers use. The Tanker truck holds 5,400 gallons of water at full fill up. The tanker fills up with Payson Town water from the fire hydrant located behind Home Depot an average of ten to twelve times daily, but often as many as seventeen times a day! That water is taken to Mesa Del and emptied into their water storage tanks for their use. This Payson Public Municipal water sale was quietly approved without public input and has been going on since early 2010. Now, even if this water taking only occurs from May until the end of September (just a guess, maybe it's all year long) do the math. 5,400 gallons X 10 fill up's (minimum) per day = 54,000 gallons daily. Now, 54,000 gallons per day total (again, a minimum) X 7 days a week =
378,000 gallons of water! One acre/foot of water = is 325,829 gallons. Keep in mind, this has been occurring since early 2010! Did you here about it then? Were you asked for any opinion or public input from the Town Government? With all our PUBLIC Town Well water taken since 2010, we could have one or two more Green Valley Parks with lakes. Should your Payson water rates increase, you may want to ask why.
Good job on the research, Don. Thanks.
Maybe that is why our water rates went up. With Mesa Del getting water and the town selling water to Chaparral for their golf course at a discount.
Was any of this brought up in public at a council meeting or was it done behind closed doors with maybe a kickback deal?
No wonder new water hookups for building are so expensive and now people are complaining because the sewer district has money to expand without borrowing money.
I believe they know what they are doing. If a building is already existing they don't charge another big hook up fee like the town water dept.
Wonder where the town got their information on how much it would cost to hook up the sewer for ASU? Who does Evans or the reporter know that the manager of the sewer plant doesn't?
Don and Pat,
I'm confused as to both your attitudes on this subject. I have no dog in the fight since I live in Deer Creek...but. Aren't the folks that live in Mesa Del our neighbors and friends? You both complain about the sharing agreement being done without public comment. If it had gone to a public vote , would you have been ok with letting our neighbors go without water? Mesa Del is only a few miles from Payson city limits. I don't think that the residents had a choice with their water provider. I know that you , Pat , have complained about the past and present water restrictions. I think this has very little to do with the present restrictions. I am proud of Payson coming to the aid of a neighbor.
As to Chap. pines.... they paid for the use of the water.
I don't know how long you have lived here but the original zoning and everything else that had to do with Chaparall pines, they were to furnish their own water from wells they drilled and from a ranch they bought that had water. Now they are using water from Payson to water golf courses and are paying less than we are for drinking water. You don't see anything wrong with that? If Payson has so much water then people should be able to have a lawn if they want it.
Let Gila county find Mesa del water, they are the ones that keep letting people build out there when they know there isn't enough water. Yes I am aware of where Mesa del is, as my parents owned it back in the 40's when it was a cattle ranch.
There are subdivisions here in Payson that Ariz. Water dept. didn't approve because there was not proof of 100 year water supply. I would bet none of the buyers ever saw the papers on that. People build where they shouldn't then want someone else to take care of their problems. Well Tough. Look before you leap.
Over the years, during my visits, I would look for a place while staying with friends in Mesa Del. If it wasn't for my friends telling me of the water situation I would never have known it was an issue. No realtor ever mentioned water. Ultimately, I did not buy there but my friends still live there.
They know they either drill a well, as some are doing, (but how long will that last if everyone drills a well into the same aquifer) or pay the price/fees for water to live there and remain outside the town limits. It's not like they can go without water.
I agree the town residents should not pay higher fees because water is being sold elsewhere and then the town could be short on supply. I'm just speculating here as I'm new in town, but it seems odd to say, hell, sink or swim, you chose to live there. My friends do everything possible to conserve water, as you would expect under the current conditions. To complain that we in town do not have a plot of grass is rather silly when people are keeping their water consumption to a minimum especially since the rates in Mesa Del have just gone up with a new supplier.
I'm probably sticking my 2 cents in and I shouldn't.....but tossing Mesa Del to the tumbleweeds isn't the solution.
Pat, I was here when Chap. Pines opened lot sales...about 18 years ago. I know about the wells that were drilled at Mayfield Canyon,but there were addition agreements with the town reguarding water.I believe Chap. Pines paid for the water storage tank on Tyler Parkway and gave the Town money for a new fire station. There may have been other agreements, but the bottom line is that the Town granted Chap. Pines the right to purchase non-potable reclaimed water to use on it's golf course when their storage lakes ran low.Now I know you don't like that,but to answer your question.....no, I do not see anything wrong with it.
As far as Mesa Del....If the County has water they can sell them ...great. If not I think the Town should continue to help them out until they tap into the pipeline water.
Sorry, I'm tired of being told my water rates need to be increased, I can't have some grass for my dogs to sniff, I can't have a swim pool if I want, but I have to subsidize a community that people chose to live in that has a very long known water production and delivery problem. And those same people keep and raise farm animals and raise agricultural crops, all of which use more water. And I'm supposed to restrict my use and be limited in what I am allowed to do? I have lived here for twenty years now, and I am well aware of the water issues. Robbing peter to give to paul is not right or fair. Trying to put the good neighbor guilt trip on Payson residents is not an answer, just a diversion.
Pat is right in that Gila County should address their water issues. Mesa Del is in Gila County. My OPINION is that this Payson sweetheart water deal with the private water company was concocted to allow them to continue their water hauling rip off rates. They will make no current water delivery infrastructure improvements to Mesa Del because of the pending future Cragin Pipeline water allotment. But taking Payson Town Public water for now effectively shuts up any Mesa Del opposition to the future water treatment plant being built in their vicinity. Do the math and see how much Payson Well water has been delivered to Mesa Del since early 2010. It's a very large number. It just happens to be the same time period of the Cragin Pipeline/water treatment plant deal being struck.
I don't think Payson owns the reclaimed water.The sewer district does. Doesn't it?
Chaparal Pines has wells in Chaparal Pines why don't they use them?
How much money is Mesa del paying on the cost of the the pipeline?
I don't think we owe Mesa del, Star Valley or any of the other communities anything. They chose where to live.
You have a well where you live, don't you?
Maybe everyone in Payson should start drilling their own wells. It is legal you know.
Some of the homes just south of GVP have their own wells that have been drilled in the last 12 years or so. One drilled a well about five or six years ago so he could have trees and grass. Looks beautiful.
So the water wars aren't confined to Pine/Strawberry. I guess this is the true west.
Non-potable water is not drinkable. If Payson can make some money selling non drinkable water, shouldn't they do it? Do you have the capacity to have non drinkable water delivered to your homes? If you do, why not see if you can get it for your residence in order to water your lawns, gardens, trees, etc.
See todays front page roundup article about the explosions in Mesa Del.
Well, I feel better now knowing that 378,000 gallons of Payson public water is weekly being sent to Mesa Dell so they can keep their Marijuana crops watered and growing, and extinguish their meth lab kitchen fires. After all, that's what being a good neighbor is all about.
Gila County has little interest in water. I, and others, have gone to Planning and Zoning meetings to see what could be done about water regulations. We all came away believing the County would do nothing. Anyway the county has little to say about water in incorporated areas like Payson and Star Valley.
Is Chapparel Pines not a part of the incorporated part of Payson?
Yes Bernice, Chapparel Pines is part of Payson, but that shouldn't change the original zoning, water rights and other things that were in the original plans. They live in their own little world which we are not allowed into. Think maybe it is because they don't want us to know what is going on? I don't think they have always been in the town limits. They were annexed later.
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