Thursday December 12, 2013
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Please read the article about the key law in tonights paper. Starts on page one bottom right hand corner.
The paragraph that caught my eye was,
Evans and other backers of the project have been working for more than two years to come up with a way to take advantage of up to $500 million in donations and promised loans, while protecting Payson tax payers from liability and not drawing on AS's nearly exhausted capacity to use bonds to finance the campus.
Evans and other backers.
Wonder how much our mayor is putting in?
I though he gave all his money away...
To answer your question, zero.
Thousands of people in Payson are "backers" of this project, including me.
You are making a huge assumption when relating "backers" and "money".
An assumption, by the way, that is incorrect.
I know there are many people that want the college, but usually when the word backer is used it concerns money.
I don't care one way or another if ASU comes to Payson, as long as our taxes aren't raised and the town responsible for taking care of it.
I don't think it will keep the local students here. Most kids want to get away to go to college.
Heard a rumor from what I consider to be two good sources.
They told me they'd heard that "Mayor Kenny" tried to get ASU to give 10% of each student's tuition payment to the T.O.P.
They told him "HECK NO!" The A.S.U. bureaucrats said that they need to keep ALL the tuition money for A.S.U.
I wonder if the rumor is true?
I don't see the harm in his asking. Maybe we could call the 10% contribution a yearly student "tithe" to the town. :0)
I heard on TV yesterday the fees at ASU were going to be raised between $1000. and $1100. a year.
Any student should be able to get a part time job to make up that much. Quit hanging on mom and dad's purse strings.
There are a lot of Payson residents that depend on those minimum-wage, part-time jobs. The jobs section of the Roundup seems to be getting smaller all the time.
When Mayor Kenny's "vision" of a new college campus is complete, those people will also have to compete with college kids for those menial jobs.
Sorry I didn't make my self clear. I was talking about in the valley not up here.
I don't think the fees are the same at all the ASU campus'.
I understood your post, Pat.
I'm just trying to point out yet another reason why an ASU campus in Payson would have far reaching implications. Implications that these "pro-ASU cheerleaders" aren't considering.
I don't know how much the backers and investors are putting up for the new ASU campus. They are selling bonds which will need to be paid back by someone. I have a hunch that the someone, is a school district funded by us taxpayers. Does anyone know of a web site where the bonds are being sold? I would like to know what the terms are. What is the interest rate, and term of the bonds?
Payson usually uses the same company. if you go back in the archives of the newspaper you may find the name of the company or go to town hall and ask for that information. It should be a matter of public record.
But of course the mayor says it isn't going to cost the taxpayers a cent. And with it being outside investors and Japanese it may be a whole different story. Maybe Panasonic doesn't need to borrow money. (:
Do you really believe all this is going to happen and if it does we aren't paying for it?
go to google and type in bonds. It will give all the information you could ever want.
I just typed on bonds and it dropped down a line saying bonds and intrest. Have fun.
Heard it today: Nationwide sales of municipal bands dropped 44% over last year.
What is it about a college town that is so bad, that contributors to this link, and long time residents so oppose?
Is it the young people coming to Payson to study and learn and to earn their way, that they object too?
Is it the rent they will pay to live here? The staples they will buy to exist here? The beauty of the surrounding area that they will enjoy on their time off.?
Or is it the fear that we will have to contribute to the coffers to make it better for us all?
Everybody complains about taxes but the share of taxes that Payson gets is so nominal that they have had to make drastic cuts in the way they do business over the past two or three years.
No citizen of Payson has really had to cough up more to survive this ongoing recession because the town of Payson needed the money.
If you want to find someone to get mad at, look no further the Globe. The Property valuations have finally gone down...but guess what the tax rate went up to compensate because, heaven forbid, we can't reduce our budget to take care of everybody that needs the money. :(> And Globe doesn't want a real college in the county. They want to continue giving our tax dollars to Safford and Graham county because they give a mediocre learning experience that keeps people in their place. Ouch!!! That came out kind of hard......Oh well.
I am not against the college as long as it is done the way it has been half way presented. Not costing the town of Payson or the residents anything.
Where it isn't going to cost us more taxes.
Now the event center is being included in the solar deal. Why, and was this brought before the council?
Does anyone really know what is going on?
Like what companies are coming in, who is paying for the college facilities, who is paying the millions of dollars to APS for electricity to be put in place. Impact fees?
Details, details, on legal documents. Signed. Not with a handshake.
1) "What is it about a college town that is so bad, that contributors to this link, and long time residents so oppose?"
Where do I start?
If I hadn't spent time in and around "college towns," I might have a better opinion of them. College kids (17-25 years old) are usually getting their first taste of real freedom and responsibility. In my experience, that often results in excessive drinking, drug "experimentation" and all types of assinine behavior, behavior that I don't care to see in my "quiet little mountain town." Call me selfish, but I didn't move to a college town for a reason.
Now I'm not talking about all young adults, of course, but many. Too many! You might be surprised at at the trouble that only 10% of the student population can cause. Do you know why the movie "Animal House" was so funny? Because much of it was truth, disguised as comedy.
2) "Is it the young people coming to Payson to study and learn and to earn their way, that they object too?"
In ASU's quest for money, they often recruit and accept a large number of foreign students. They get higher tuition from foreign students and out of state students. Universities are businesses, first. It's a profit driven system. If the thought of a large number of foreign college students living in Payson makes you swoon, then you're on a different wavelength than I am. Most foreign students will leave America and take their American education back to their home countries. Education exportation... does that make America any better off?
3) "Is it the rent they will pay to live here?"
I thought ASU was going to build "green" dorm rooms. Are you telling me that students will need to rent some of the cheap, substandard housing that exists around town? Eight to ten college kids (and their automobiles) crammed into a run-down, Payson mobile home? Sounds wonderful, unless you happen to live in that neighborhood, that is.
What happens to the rent rates in a town when a college comes in? Higher rents! There are a lot of people in Payson that are barely making it right now. Raise their rents and they'll be forced to go elsewhere. Is that something positive for the town?
4) "The staples they will buy to exist here? The beauty of the surrounding area that they will enjoy on their time off.?"
We already have a major traffic problem, lasting all summer long. It's due to people escaping the heat of the valley. Throw in 1000 to 6000 more people/students and what will we have, then? A mess, that's what.
5) "Or is it the fear that we will have to contribute to the coffers to make it better for us all?"
Ahh, collectivism! "FROM each, according to their means. TO each, according to their needs." Where have we seen that thinking before? If government will just take even more of our money (by force and taxation) , we'll all end up living better? Are you serious?
People simply don't have the money to spend anymore. We're tapped out, if you haven't noticed. America is tapped out, our entire state is tapped out. Anyone that had a 401k plan saw it shrink into a 201k. The average American owes $15 thousand on their credit card. There is simply no money left to spend!
I heard a local real estate agent say that there are 1128 properties for sale in the area. Property values are HALF what they were a few years ago. Do you think we can really spend our way out of a depression?
5) "Everybody complains about taxes but the share of taxes that Payson gets is so nominal that they have had to make drastic cuts in the way they do business over the past two or three years."
The state of AZ is broke. They had to sell their government buildings and lease them back to raise capital. Does this give you a hint about our state's financial condition?
6) "No citizen of Payson has really had to cough up more to survive this ongoing recession because the town of Payson needed the money."
Many citizens of Payson are working for smaller paychecks than they used to. Many are completely out of work, maybe permanently. Does it matter that the construction industry, once said to be 70% (!) of Payson's economy, is now a very small remnant of what it was?
If you're a home builder and you ain't building homes anymore, what do you do for a living?
Why didn't someone think of buying GCC for ASU? Solve two problems. Some buildings already there and some classes could start immediately. Everyone could quit fighting over what goes on at GCC ruled from somewhere else.
Maybe there would be classes and teachers for younger students instead of free arts and crafts for seniors.
Mr. Varnes includes a certain amount of logic in his remarks regarding the possible/sure results of having a university campus in Payson. However, I believe that Mr. Varnes' point of view is not well balanced. It is a glass that is "half empty". My experiences with college/university towns has been very positive, with some negatives. I find that colleges/universities bring vibrancy, culture, and other experiences that clearly outweigh the negatives so long as the community is willing to adapt to new circumstances. Of course, if a person desires the status quo, change is a threat . I will keep my eyes and ears open and follow the process with interest.
Having lived in Tucson I enjoyed the many benefits of a large University campus. The Planetarium, many museums and of course the sporting events. And while I do realize that this campus will not offer these ammenities I feel that it will be a "Good Fit" for Payson. Payson needs a shot in the arm and hopefully the ASU campus will help provide this.
Could someone refresh my mind and tell me what the major will be for this 4 year degree?
Living green and making the Japanese and Chinese more money ?
LOL, that is why you are my hero!
It looks like I should have gotten back to this post sooner. Dan V. I don't know I've done to stir such ire in you but I don't believe you have a good grasp on the attitude of the majority of young people in this country. Serious students will seek out and find serious places to learn. Hillsdale College is but one example. Don't believe what you may have read in Playboy magazine where I'm told they rate party towns...:). Some students will likely want the affordabilty of dorms, some will choose a more independent lifestyle. I believe all will find a way to make friends and interact in the community.
Pat, as for GCCC's campus. It's not up for sale. It belongs to the County and is under the control of Safford.
Mr. Lemon, Varnes does make some points which have caused concern in other communities but look where Payson has come in the last 20 years. In 1980, Payson was known as the party and festival capital of Arizona. MacDonalds had come and Western fun was the rule. We had a Country Music Festival, people sang danced and got drunk. We had a Blues Grass festival, people came and sang and danced and got drunk, We had the ultimate Fiddlers Festival where
people came and played and sang and danced and got drunk. And then there was the Rodeo. Payson was known as the party capital of Arizona. College kids came from Tempe and Tucson to participate in a summer of fun and debauchery. All of that changed the year that Payson Police Chief Dave Wilson was murdered on the front lawn of a mad resident.
I've made a point of pointing out getting drunk, not because that was the main focus of the festivals but because history says that's the way it always was for some. FOR SOMe. Talk to the children of the pioneers who remember August Doin's. Who can vividly recall the family activities and youthful participation that didn't involve the Booze. In those days many Adults drank. Had fights, challenged friends...BUT they found their limit. The vast majority were mature, fun loving, living off the land citizens of a free America.
Given the opportunity to be free, most college students will pursue freedom and their academic future with the same ferver. Some may even want to stay here and help us move into the future. I for one do not want to go back, nor do I want to remain stagnant, I want to be challenged by the future and the next great Payson and Rim Country. Bring on the College.
Everything is for sale for enough money. Gila County would probably like to get rid of the college.
Now to the rest of your post.
Being from one of what so many people use in a derogatory manner, I am from one of the "Pioneer families' and resent the way you described them and the town.
I know Payson was known as the Festival capital of Arizona but never did I see, hear or read about it being the party capital.
We had a lot more going on than getting drunk. They were family affairs. There were dances every Sat. night two of the dance halls did not allow alcohol in them. They were on Main St. along with 3 or 4 places to eat. The kids were in dancing not out somewhere doing drugs. There were ropings almost every weekend in Star Valley in the spring and summer. All the festivals you mentioned and some I have forgotten.
Payson was not a place to come to just to get drunk.
Tell me how many so called charitable events are held in Payson that don't get a temporary liquor license to raise money for kids. What kind of message does that send to the kids?
You can get just as drunk on wine or beer as any other kind of alcohol. Fact ! We owned a bar for 6 years. Another fact. A lot of people go into a bar that has never been drunk or even tasted anything with alcohol in it.
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