Monday September 22, 2014
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Why are the Future Farmers of America from the high school cleaning private property at the corner of 87 and 260 during school hours? Mon. April 22.
Is the school or FFA class getting paid for this?
One time Boy Scouts cleaned it. I believe that was arranged by the town.
Isn't it privately owned or owned by the town? Have a landscaper do it and put a lien on the property.
If it is to teach FFA how to do yard work, there is plenty could be done at the high school or help some elderly or ill people with thier yards. Not a commercial bldg. that is vacant.
Yes, I know about FFA. Three kids were in it. Two went to National Convention in Kansas City and came home with awards. The other one was Arizona State Farmer one year. FFA is one of the best things for a student. My opinion. (:
I saw that as well Pat and wondered the same thing!!
If the town wants it cleaned take a guard and the people that are in jail and have them clean it. How about that Kim?
I think that is a great idea!! Or, hey, how about some of the people who hang out at the local DES office, awaiting whichever of thier entitlements they are on?
That piece of right of way, virtually up to the building, belongs to ADOT.
The Boy Scouts did the original work as a project to enhance their town's appearance. I would assume the FFA members did it for the same reasons.
Thanks to both organizations for their efforts.
Thank you, Mr. Naughton. High School clubs often do projects to show good citizenship and civic responsibility. Clubs sometimes are sponsored by local civic groups such as Kiwanis , Lions and so forth. The goals of the clubs are varied, but generally both adult organizations and some student clubs aim to teach and demonstrate citizenship in action. In the case mentioned above, I have no clue about why the students were out of class during the school day. Perhaps they were enrolled in a student government class or had a free period. I guess that a person would have to ask the school administration.
Mr. Naughton this was being done during school hours not after school or on the weekend.
If I am not mistaken the Town took over the right of way from ADOT. So the town is supposed to maintain the right of way.
Regardless of who's responsible for the right of way, the issue you raised is why were FFA student cleaning the area. I would suggest it was a good deed, much like the organizations and citizens who take enough pride in their community to pick up garbage along the highways.
Why they were doing it during school hours I don't know. Nor do I care. School organizations do things like this all the time without any accolades. I only wish they had told us so we could have covered this project and given them the credit they deserve.
Mr. Naughton, Well said!
School organizations should be in school during learning time. No wonder we have low test scores and all the rest of the problems the PUSD is always whining about no money for teaching but what difference does it make if the students aren't in the classroom?
A classroom does not necessarily have four walls and a ceiling.
True Mr. Hinshaw, however at approximately 10:45am on Monday, there were at least 10 students well into the work of cleaning the property. This was not a one or two period project. They had clearly been transported to the location by a Payson Unified School District van, as at least one was parked in the parking lot. My concern is how many students were involved, and how many classes was each student excused from?
Furthermore, I am not certain what type of "out of classroom" learning these students were engaged in? Landscaping? Gardening? Philanthropic works? Goodness, I would hope for higher aspirations for my kid than to learn how to rake and weed while in school.
If this was a community service project, it should have been undertaken outside of school hours. I am very disappointed by the laissez-faire, "I don't care" attitude taken by some posters on here. These students are our future and if any one of you has ever been in a local business in Payson and been served, or waited on, or checked out, by one of our high school students, you would be well aware that some, NOT ALL, of our high school students can ill afford any time excused from class.
Finally, if this was indeed a "service project", it should have been undertaken by an adult service organization, or county workers, or minimum security prisoners. If one of those kids out there had been mine, I would not take kindly to my kid being used for menial, grunt work when they should be in class, learning the lessons and skills needed to survive in this world. Furthermore, whether the land is privately owned, is an ADOT right-of-way, or belongs to the Town of Payson, each of these entities has the resources to hire a crew, or send out a crew to complete this work. There are MANY non-profit organizations in town which could hugely benefit from a crew volunteering their time, efforts and energy to maintaining their property.
Thank you Kim.
If they need chopping weeds and raking as learning, they could do it at the H.S. Sometimes it looks really ratty around there. I live just a ways down Longhorn so I see the H.S every day.
News Flash....Gila County Probation Department has fairly large number of both Adult and Juvenile Probationers that have been sentenced lot's of hours of Court Ordered Community Service to complete. They used to have a community service coordinator adult position to look for, assign, and supervise community service projects. Otherwise, the supervising Probation Officer is responsible for the aforementioned and, verifying the hours performed.
As for the location of the old JB's Restaurant property mentioned above, it is privately owned. The rub is it's high profile location at the intersection of Hwy 87 & 260. It is what people see passing through Payson, it is allowed by the owner to become overgrown with weeds and debri. It is my understanding the property was bought as a flip it commercial investment. It apparently has major septic waste problems and I have been advised the town will compel any new buyer to connect to the sewer system which means digging up the major intersection to connect. A huge expense. Good luck on selling it. It is what they call in the big city, an example of urban blight. Same for some Main Street property's. Why the Town let's the owners get away with it is for your consideration.
It should be cleaned and a lien put on the property. It would have to be paid at time of sale.
I heard a few years ago that it is hooked to the sewer line but the property is lower than the line so the sewer coming to it comes up on the property and into the building.
Remember Don, enforcement is complaint driven by neighbors. The town employees can't see as they drive around town. Drive down Colcord st. from Longhorn to Frontier and look at the properties around there. Vets helping vets is one of the worst most of the time.
Don, virtually the entire corner up to a couple of feet of the restaurant itself is ADOT right of way. It does not belong to the restaurant.
The restaurant is not on a septic system it is on the mainline sewer system just like every business on the 4 corners and beyond.
The owner could have sold it on numerous occasions but prefers to wait until he can get his price.
Mr. Naughton if you check I think you will find the right of way belongs to the Town.
OK, then why do you keep saying they should put a lien on it and collect when the property is sold?
Mr. Naughton, thanks for the clarification. Seems you know the details of that particular individual property. I am also glad somebody cleaned it up for a spell until it becomes an eyesore again, no matter who did the work.
As for the sewage problem, I am still reasonably sure any new buyer of the property will be required to fix it. That requires digging up the street at the W/B right turn lane at 260 and 87 to correct the sewer connection line problems (that the Town has known about for years). If it is ADOT right of way as you say, what's the problem with keeping it reasonably maintained on a routine basis? They seem to do a fine job on all the valley freeway landscaping right of ways. If it belongs to the Town the same holds true. Pat, I agree with the lien suggestion. To many commercial property landlords are more interested in collecting the rent/lease $$$ than thinking about the upkeep of their blighted property's. If Main street currently looks like a dump, who in their right mind wants to build something nice there and invest a lot of money. And I also agree about the Vets (private owned) property. But that is a sacred cow and God help anyone who may criticize the operation or the owner.
Why don't you or Pat simply call the school and ask them about the details surrounding this topic. We can all keep guessing why they were there working on the landscape median during school hours, but why not find out. If you don't agree with the school's answer....then complain. By the way...I think that gardening , landscaping , and getting there hands dirty might be appropriate for the Future Farmers of America (FFA) :)
Don, I really agree with most of your comments. However, the lien thing won't work. Who are you going to put a lien on, ADOT or the town? The restaurant owner does not own or control the blighted property. With that being said, if I owned the restaurant I would keep it up, if for no other reason, to enhance the prospects of selling the property.
They were not just cleaning the right of way, but all around the building. So a lien will work.
I agree with Mr. Hinshaw. Folks are commenting and stating opinions about an event about which they have little or no knowledge. It is their right to do so. It is my right to agree that someone ought to ask what the facts are before staking positions. So, that is what I did. I sent an e-mail to the FFA sponsoring teacher and asked for information about the clean up. I may share an answer, if I receive one.
What reason would you have not to share the answer with all of us?
Do you want all of us to flood the teacher with e-mails?
From Mrs. Jadee Rohner, Agriculture Teacher.
You know my kids never cease to amaze me with their ideas and requests! My Animal Science 2 (2nd Hr), and Advanced Animal Science (3rd Hr) classed asked to do a service project in support & celebration of Earth Day, and so I in turned asked Roger Kreimeyer with whom we work with at the Payson Community Garden. I am proud of the classes efforts working at the community garden, and the kids enjoy giving back to the community as an extension of the classroom- they have accomplished a lot there!
Mr. Kreimeyer suggested that instead of working at the Community Garden, that the corner of 87 and 260 could use attention and that the community would appreciate it. I am a firm believer that a classroom does not always consist of a white board and 4 walls, but there are opportunities to learn through a variety of experiences for example land surveying at Bar T Bar Ranch, and teaching agriculture to youth at H4 Ranch etc.
The Total Program of Agricultural Education has a philosophy that is co-curricular meaning that FFA is not extra-curricular like Volleyball or National Honors Society, but it consists of Classroom Instruction, FFA (Leadership), and Supervised Agricultural Education (SAE)-which is their work based experience. So to answer your question below, “is this a class or club project or part of the curriculum?”, the response would be yes to all of the above. I will explain below:
Performing this activity while students were in Ag (not excused from other classes) they met the following standards and expectations:
· Identify tools, equipment and supplies used in the nursery and landscape industries.
· Identify characteristics of a quality plant.
· Recommend installation and maintenance measures for exterior landscapes.
· Determine need for fertilizers, growth regulators and pesticides.
How could this better have been taught than outside, while completing a service project?
Supervised Agricultural Experience (SAE)
Landscape Management – Entrepreneurship/Placement – In which a student owns the enterprise, or works for
a business that includes experiences of planting and maintaining plants and shrubs, landscaping and
outdoor beautification, grounds keeping, sprinkler installations and improvement of recreational areas.
Every student is expected to have an SAE, and maintain records on their SAE throughout the year using an online record book- where they keep track of the time invested and the money invested or earned. I have multiple students that have an SAE in the proficiency area of “Landscape Management”, a personal goal as a teacher is to diversify student work based experiences and show them future career opportunities first hand.
FFA (National Leadership Organization)
National FFA Mission: FFA makes a positive difference in the lives of students by developing their potential for premier leadership, personal growth and career success through agricultural education.
To accomplish its mission, FFA:
· Develops competent and assertive agricultural leadership.
· Increases awareness of the global and technological importance of agriculture and its contribution to our well-being.
· Strengthens the confidence of agriculture students in themselves and their work.
· Promotes the intelligent choice and establishment of an agricultural career.
· Encourages achievement in supervised agricultural experience programs.
· Encourages wise management of economic, environmental and human resources of the community.
· Develops interpersonal skills in teamwork, communications, human relations and social interaction.
· Builds character and promotes citizenship, volunteerism and patriotism.
· Promotes cooperation and cooperative attitudes among all people.
· Promotes healthy lifestyles.
· Encourages excellence in scholarship
I think the bullet points above clearly represent how FFA (Club or better called a Career and Technical Student Organization) was represented on Monday.
Thank you! I really appreciate your interest in the subject!
Mrs. Jadee Rohner
Payson High School
Working on the community garden is great.
I am very aware of what the FFA does. I don't know if you read my post before but I had 3 kids in FFA. 2 at Westwood HS in Mesa and one in HS in Gilbert. They were all very active in FFA. 2 went to National conventions in Kansas City, came home with medals and the other one was an Arizona State Farmer. They also received medals in Ariz. My daughter was first female officer at Westwood FFA and also Sweetheart one year. My husband was made an Honorary FFA member.
My husband took the classes to cut wood and they sold it to raise money for projects at the school.
That makes 9 yrs. I spent with FFA students. I was very proud of every student in every class They are a class apart.
Mr Naughton as far as the sewer thing goes the town should be responsible for it. It was thier engineering and building it, not the property owner.
According to LaRon Garrett, Town of Payson, they do own the right of way.
It encompasses the entire corner from the side walk up to the bushes against the building.
When the Boy Scouts did the original landscaping they stayed within the boundary of the right of way and thus, so did the PHS students.
I am not aware of any sewer problems associated with that property. However, I don't think the town would be responsible as they don't have anything to do with the sewer. You would need to contact the Northern Gila County Sanitary District to get answers on that issue and I will leave that bit of research up to you.
I don't care about the sewer. The town accepted it.
The girl I talked to at the restaurant was on the east side of the building with some of the other kids. Soooo they were not in the right of way. And this is all I am going to say on the subject. UNLESS someone else pushes my buttons. (:
Mrs. Rohner, Thank you for taking the time to present an in-depth response to questioners. You obviously considered your remarks very carefully and presented them in a well organized way. As you are aware, the educational systems are being examined and critiqed regularly by all sorts of people. Some of those people really know little about how things work and react strongly to things that they see or read or hear, although the real facts may be hidden. Your effort to improve lines of communication and clarify information is laudible.
Now, now, Mrs. Randall. If you don't care about the sewer, why do you keep bringing it up?
Just a question for Mrs. Rohner (teacher). Do your class activities and instruction include any association, input or contact, with the "Town Payson Transition Organization?" If yes, could you please advise us as to what that may be.
You had to be the one to push my buttons. If you go back a ways it was Don Evans that brought up the septic-sewer problem. Not me.
Don, I doubt it if Mrs. Rohner reads this blog.
I posted her comments in response to questions.
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