Saturday December 7, 2013
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Just a couple comments Phaye....
I've played organized sports my whole life and there are definitely coaches that stick to their values (most of them) while others don't (the minority)...
I happen to know that this head coach (although I've never met him) is an improvement over what the kids bore under the previous coach.
Lastly, if winning was most important, they would have kept the senior because he was one of there best defensive players, if not the best. (So I hear....)
I agree whole-heartedly with your post Pat. And, that's a good thing, right? Because we haven't done that much in the past.... haha
Good sportsmanship in professional sports is a joke. It's all about winning. It's all about money. There are very few Joe DiMaggio's and Mickey Mantles left. The better you are, the more you can get away with. If you bring in the bucks, your gross behavior will be overlooked only rendered only a wrist slapping. Of course this sets the wrong examples for our youth. On the other hand, it enlightens them to real life.
Money. It's always about the money.
"Local Teens Busted For Drinking In Forest" is not as good a headline as:
"Varisity Football Players Busted For Drinking in Public."
The same buttons aren't pushed.
I just hope the real consequences of all of this does NOT prevent any one of those boys affected from staying on a college track, assuming they WERE on one - i.e., had scholarships in the offing. If the consequences negate those opportunities, then every citizen in Payson better think twice when that same kid asks them: "Want fries with that?"
A high school graduate in Payson, lacking SAT scores to get him/her into college or having taken and passed the pre-requisite courses, has very limited employment opportunities in Payson. AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COACH - SHEESH. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM????
Look around. Where's the industry? Entrepreneurial mom and pops die every few months here in Payson, and like self-propogating amoeba, pop up again in another locale, and the cycle continues.
Choice? Yea, they hAve a choice. A choice in which fast food establishment they are gonna field their resume. Hopefully, those kids will be late bloomers, academically, and get out of Payson and pursue their education. Hopefully that will happen before Jack & Jill hook up in the forest and drink too much beer and Jill gets pregnant. And the cycle continues.
No, Eric Musselman is not my son. Likewise, I am not Eric's mother.
Further, my mother and father are not related to Eric. Nor is my Aunt Penny in Seattle. Eric Bogoshian isn't related to me either. Bill Musselman is no relation. And the only relationship I have with mussels is that I really like shellfish.
While coaching, my son is also working towards his Master's Degree at Antioch University. He never attended college in San Diego.
Reed, your comment: "Lastly, if winning was most important, they would have kept the senior because he was one of there best defensive players, if not the best." does not qualify for the scenario I was making, although it lends itself to the same point. It lacks the other elements.
Please understand, and I say this with all due respect to both you and this new coach, whom I do not know and know very little about - I am not fault-finding with the coach's decision, nor am I fault-finding with his pre-season contract commitments of the players. I AM asserting - with personal conviction - that kind of "banishment" punitive result would NOT come have been a result given the elements I described. You say coaches stick to their values - that's somewhat a generalization and does not take into account "real" life scenarios.
I don't even know who or anything about the players involved in all of this, but if that senior was on a college track and if that senior had college scholarships on his horizon and IF this "banishment" (my word) ruins all that, then I say here - nay, I yell it: THE PUNISHMENT WAS TOO HARSH BECAUSE THE NET RESULT IS IT RUINS HIS FUTURE AND THAT CAN HAVE EVEN MORE DEVASTATING EFFECTS ON THIS YOUNG MAN.
I reitterate that I offer my opinions here based on my limited knowledge of the full circumstances.
My son, who lives in California, is a coach at the University level. I will not say where or what sport in consideration of his privacy, however, I can tell you that winning is everything there. Tenure of coaches, pay of coaches, funding of the sport, etc. are all predicated on the scoreboard each and every season. And not only does he have to deal with the parents of 18-23 year olds, but the University board, the University Athletic Director, the University President, the alumni, etc. etc.
So, I tell you I understand what a coach has to go through. When you think about it, it's a blessing when Payson can even GET a coach, given all the crap they have to go through for so little pay.
Should parents and the community support this coach and his decisions? In this case? Well, that depends upon the elements in my scenario and the subsequent consequences to the player, IMHO.
As a general rule, OF COURSE parents and the community should support a coach - any coach, assuming what they are doing is on the right side of the law, morality, and common sense.
I wonder if coach Anderson would have held the 5 players to their "contract" if, IF, IF, those 5 players were high performance seniors, college bound with multiple offers, AND, AND, AND, the Payson HS Football team had been on a 3 year national win streak, AND, AND, AND Coach Anderson had a stellar collegiate coaching job in the offing for the 07-08 season.
IF those elements were at play, I can almost guarantee you, the football players would not have been suspended.
Why? Because the lesson in life, as stated in today's Roundup would have taken back seat to the opportunities that would have been offered those players and, thus, life changing events for them and their future.
Instead, none of those elements came into play...so those that want, can shake their fingers and say "See? See what happens to bad boys who drink when they signed a contract saying they wouldn't?", and feel proud that they've taught these kids a lesson in life.
I don't know if parents of the boys are protesting. I suspect some or all may be, however, the time to have protested was when the coach presented that contract.
If the senior that was booted was a national H.S. rated star and being scouted by, oh, say, USC or UCLA, I guarantee you he'd be playing in tonight's game.
And THAT, dear phriends, is a REAL lesson of REAL life.
I used the word "suspended", but I know they were all kicked off the team.
I don't have any email from yu. But I use a spam filter and I only allow email from people I know.
What's your question?
No, I haven't seen Cars. But I watched Wedding Crasher's tonight and laughed out loud. Funny movie.
As to offending me - - ha! You gotta rev up your game, pal. You haven't even come close.
It's past my bedtime. I'm Code 7.
Ahhhh.... my question was is your son's name Eric.... I think I know who he is and we have many similar acquaintances. I have probably met him once or twice.... Doesn't he have ties to USD?
I would expound, but, you stated before you wanted to protect his privacy....
And, I'm glad I didn't offend you ... you seemed a little bit fired up. Good that the banter can continue.... ha
I don’t agree with the whole contract idea. I think that everyone should be held to the same high standards. That being said, if these young men and women (sorry don’t know all the sexes involved here) gave their word (having signed the contract) then they need to have that contract enforced. I’m sorry if that would have made someone lose a scholarship but maybe their bad example could have been a good learning lesson to others. Plus the football player KNEW that by drinking that he was taking the chance of losing the scholarship. How can these young adults learn from their mistakes if their actions have no consequences?
Of course they should have consequences! No argument there, my friend.
I keep pounding the point: Given the hypotehtical scenario I gave, is the consequence appropriate?
What would be appropriate consequences? I can think of plenty.
What are the appropriate consequences of the alternative scenario I gave concerning an adult law enforcement officer?
That was no hypothetical, by the way.
I've enjoyed this thread quite a bit, and have spoken to several parents over this ordeal. I think that the core issue should be what is the child learning at this level? Is the child learning (or being taught) how to manipulate a system and bend to his/her desires? Or should the child learn (or be taught) how to live within the parameters our society demands of all her citizens?
My personal observations with 12+ years involved with our local school district, is that we are trying to prepare our youth for that transition in life that usually occurs at age 18, when the student receives their PUSD graduation certificate. All too many times, some of our youth have failed to accomplish that by differing means, and are now paying for their folly.
Yes, some have locally good athletic talent to play at the collegiate level, but those students are few and far between.
I have also seen those students who have failed to follow societies norms in even the most minutest (drinking) with any consequences pretty much washed out.
Unfortunately, quite a few of our residents (local and national) have raised a banner of belief that says a little lawlessness won't hurt me too much, instead of one that reads I desire to stay on the enlightened path and veer away from selfish behavior.
We in law enforcement have arrested other invisible juveniles over the course of decades for consuming intoxicating beverages. I personally do not approve of how this latest round of delinquent acts were displayed through our media. Why were the choices of these other "non-jocks" not printed front page below the fold? I think it is a disservice to our community members that a few athletes whose possible involvement in collegiate play was put in print in the first place. I often wonder how those who aren't involved in local athletics feel about this issue? Think I'll talk to some this week and get their perspective.
Dreams, goals and agendas are necessary for one's future, but let's properly prepare our youth for the reality of life as each of us knows it to be, and not to a fool's errand.
I know who Phaye's son is and he is a very prominent coach... (I'm 90% sure that I know) I have tried to confirm the fact, but have yet to hear if I was right....
Nonetheless... I stand behind what this coach did. It was not a blurry line and it does not matter what level of sport we are talking about. He expected much... but, got less! He held them to their committment.
I once heard a very repected high school coach allow a sex crime convicted kid back on his team because, "he did not want to destroy the kid's future"... the kid was very, very talented and was already being lured by many Div I colleges. Hmmmmm... Let's not forget, it's not the coach that does it, it's the kid that chooses to not abide by team rules. If they feel they are going to drink at a party in the woods (not very inconspicious, by the way), then don't sign the stinking contract and play for somebody else.
Lastly, I hear the best player of the other group has already transfered to a state powerhouse team... I would love to have that confirmed. Blue Ridge seems to ring a bell! What does that say about the system? Somewhere a coach will act as if the kids' skills are more important than their character.
Lastly, you become a fast food worker by your own choices Phaye, not those of your coaches. Maybe I could blame my college coach for the fact that I'm covering a police beat unstead of being a rich business owner! Dang... I wish I would have known that prior to joinging the college team that I did!!!!!!!!!! haha
Yes, it is confirmed. One of the boys held accountable for their behavior was immediately removed from Payson High and re-enrolled in Blue Ridge by his parent. Sad day if you ask me.
One day, if this locally talented youth gets a chance at collegiate play, what will he have learned? That a parent overlooked what true character and integrity is and prostituted a system instead of allowing a son to stand up and take responsibility for his own misbehavior.
One day, if at the collegiate level, this lad will make yet another tragic mistake and will be held criminally liable for his misdeed. Then the true miscarriage of accountability will take place, as the young man had in his hands the position to stand tall and firm with his other classmates (who didn't have the ability to move and run away from their dilemna), deal with the situation and overcome it with personal strength and conviction.
How do I know this? By looking at local history.
Yes, Phaye, I wish there was a positive outcome on this, but right now, I don't see it happening...at least for this one particular young man. Hopefully, the others who were caught will ponder their earlier positions, realize their mistake, correct that behavior, then move on to personal worth and greatness.
Oh for crissakes! How old are you people? I'm almost 62. I was a hippie. I protested the viet nam war. I was active in the counter culture. I did a lot of things I should not have in my late teens and early twenties. Life's passages. We grow and learn and evolve into responsible citizens.
Some of the comments here would make it appear these boys did something really heinous for which they should be punished severely so that a lesson in life can be learned. It's presented as if there is a blank slate suddenly marred by this one transgression and if the punishment didn't take it's full course these young men may falter in later life because they didn't suffer the severe consequences. Geesus! They didn't exactly kidnap and disembowel somebody did they? They didn't exactly commit armed robbery did they? They didn't cause any physical harm to anyone did they? They were drinking.
I would be VERY suprised if you can say that you never drank under age. Oh, you might retort that you didn't sign any contract. Okay, but did you deceive your folks about that underage drinking? Were you dishonest? Did you violate their trust? Did you go ahead and drink after promishing your parents wouldn't? And how did YOU turn out? Not so bad, I venture to say.
Look, lessons in behavior must first come from the home. Parents are the most responsible for shaping the character of their character. I'm sure there will be other instances of poor choices and wrong behavior with these boys. It's called GROWING UP!! And haven't we all been there?
Sheesh. So many perfect people in Payson. So few glass houses.
I was a respecting person of your comments Phaye, but your starting to go off the deep end and your hippie/law enforcement (walking contradiciton?) comments probably explain why!
First and foremost, you implied in earlier posts that holding a kid responsible for drinking by removing him from the team could take him off of the college course, hence landing him at a fast food joint!!! Now, you're jumping to the local economy being to blame.... Judas Priest, get a grip!
Then, what started this whole thing, your decrying of an athletic system that is deeply involved in dirty politics the more talented an athlete may be. (Sounds like your against it...) Then, abraa cadabra, your all of a sudden for a juvenile being forgiven their transgressions so as to remain on course. This very line of thought is what drives spikes between student-athletes and the academic student. PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT - And, you seem all for it!
Yes, I drank before I was 21, but I did not flaunt it at a huge, loud party in the middle of the woods while on a contract to remain on a team. Sports was A-1 for me, not a stupid party. It's not like it wasn't clearly spelled out. And, as a person who brags about being from law enforcement, you should well know that alcohol consumption by kids can easily end up resulting in dead kids by DUI accidents or whatever! So, the coach didn't want that on his concious... good for him.
Maybe it's worth just a few dead kids to allow many of them to drink huh? Bottom line, it's all to prevent any kids from hurting themselves just to get a buzz!
In your words, SHEEEESH.... get over it!
Besides studying the Crusades, you might enroll in a Remedial Reading course.
You're putting your own spin on my words. Read the posts over from the beginning.
My argument was as follows: If the punishment (banned from the program) had an end result that the student(s) lost an opportunity for a scholarship, then the punishment was too severe. I was also arguing for keeping the whole matter in perspective. Consuming alcohol. Not destruction of property, not hurting anyone. These were/are teenage boys. In the process of growing up, mistakes are made and we learn from them. We grow into adults who then act responsibly.
But let us consider a different scenario - this time with a grown up. An opposite analogy might be when a law enforcement officer crosses the line, destroys property, injures an innocent civilian, and costs the city tens of thousands of dollars in settlement, but gets to keep his job. Where's the consequences of action there?
BTW, I don't think I mentioned any athletic system that was "deeply involved in dirty politics" - those are your characterizations of my words and they both erroneous and onerous.
I can see our love affair has come to an end. I'm okay so long as I don't cross the line. Shoot, line crossing is a specialty of mine. Particularly in debatable issues.
That ticking sound you hear is the Roundup clock ticking off the hours until Phaye is 86'd from this Forum for not "playing nice" and bruising the delicate sensibilities of those who would prefer she had "normal thought processes".
Consider me an anomaly on the Payson populace landscape.
This topic has come up not only with the radio broadcasts that I am involved with, but on a 3A football website discussion board (to the tune of 6 pages in a few days). What needs to be established here, whether you agree with a contract or not, is that these players committed to a contract that said specifically that they would not do this and that or else you will be released from the football team for the duration of the season. These players broke the agreement with the knowledge up front what would happen in their so chosing to do so. The coach followed through on his end and the players no longer are a part of the team this season. One of them is a sophomore star, leading the state (levels 1A-5A) in tackles (courtesy of MaxPreps AZ). Imagine now if Coach Anderson had kept this player for, say a 3 week suspension, and the rest were not welcome back, or worse... all 5 were allowed to remain with the team while another player earlier this season was terminated from the team for violating the team policy. Wouldn't that open up a whole can of worms? Kudos to Coach Anderson for sticking to his guns and upholding his team policy, agreed upon by all players prior to the beginning of the 2006 football season.
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The problem with "zero tolerance" commitments is that they really don't meld with the world we live in. Neither do they allow second chances. And a second chance can, and most likely should, come with consequences. Second chances are necessary in many cases depending upon the degree of infraction and circumstances.
Imagine a zero tolerance law on "spousal abuse". A man shoves his wife, during a heated argument. He goes to prison. Kids without a father. Reduced financial resources for the mother. Would some here still say: "Well, he knew the law. Zero tolerance. He knew the consequences." What about the guy who repeatedly, brutally beats his wife? Should there be consideration for the difference in degree of violence executed in those two cases? Which guy should get the second chance? Neither? Both?
Heck, you have to have 3 (THREE) strikes against you before you get a guaranteed "Go Directly to Jail" card in today's society. No zero tolerance there. I'm not saying that's right where violation of the law is concerned. I'm just saying our laws are not "zero tolerance".
I admire this Coach Anderson guy for sticking to his end of the contract. Truly, I do. Kids need boundaries and they need consequences for poor choices. I think there's lots of other punitive actions that could have been done, but the contrract precluded that.
I've given up pounding home my point on the hypothetical scenario because nobody here seems to get it. They are stuck at the intersection of "zero tolerance". That intersection has a one way sign.
If I have offended you, I apologize... sincerely. I enjoy reading your posts and laugh often when I do. (Maybe it's my lack of reading skills!) I don't suspect that the Roundup will be kicking you off anytime soon. This has been very fun and thought provoking.
Have you seen the movie "Cars?" I just imagine us as that military jeep parked next to that Hippie VW Van. They bicker and fight, but ultimately, they still stand co-existing together... haha
Lastly... the element I like most about you is the fact that you are undeniably an individual in your beliefs. Taking each and every idea as it comes and forming your own opinion, not some party line opinion. That is huge in my opinion.
I've shared this in the past, but I'm am conservative for the most part, but a big time Greenie! I hate like heck that Bush is looking more intensely for oil in Alaska. I know we're dependant on the stuff, but man it leaves a disgusting trail. Where should it all end?
To stay on the topic of this thread... You needed to know the last coach's techniques and the way he treated the kids to understand how refreshing this coach is to Payson. I don't know every detail, but there was a huge falling out with one of the high school's best players because that player blew the whistle on the coach chewing tobacco at practice with the players. It was only learned later how deep this coach's bullying went. And, I know pesonally, that one kid's future was deeply changed for the negative because of this bully moron!
P.S. As for the question you didn't answer, check your personal e-mail... I tried to contact you through this forum and never received a response from you....
Did you get the latest super jock forgiveness tale? In the NFL on Sunday, a defensive lineman stomped his cleated foot down on the un-helmeted head of an offensive lineman. It was clearly intentional and he received a five-game suspension with no pay. Big Deal! There's been differing reports, but the "victim" received anywhere from 30 to 60 stitches.
That is Aggravated Assault in Arizona and if it happened anywhere outside of the confines of professional sports, the player would probably have been charged.
I'm a huge sports fan, but Judas Priest, get it under control.... I'd rather watch my 8th grade son's team play.
Either the kids had a contract or not. Now is the time for them to learn the lessons of life. The coach maybe thought just thier word wasn't good enough so they signed a contract. Wern't any of them smart enough to know that drinking is ilegal for anyone under 21? Who bought the alcohol and were there any 'adults' there? I didn't see anything about anyone being arrested for suppling alcohol to minors.
I also think the names should be printed. Sometimes embarrassement goes a long way to change a person. I don't beleive there is a law against printing the name, just a courtesy. Why do they deserve the courtesy of not printing their name?
I think it should be the same with the pro players. First time caught. Out permanantly. It wouldn't take long for the message to filter down to the high school level.
As for the pro that stomped on the player's head, he should be kicked out of pro ball for life and criminal charges brought against him. I saw the rerun of it last night on the news and he should be OUT.
I do agree with most of Pat's comments except the one:
"I also think the names should be printed. Sometimes embarrassement goes a long way to change a person. I don't beleive there is a law against printing the name, just a courtesy. Why do they deserve the courtesy of not printing their name?"
The kids involved are all good kids, I think their punishment came from being kicked off the team and also having to deal with the punishment from their parents. What purpose would it serve to print their names in the paper? Their peers know who they are and so do their families. They don't need others pointing them out down the road saying "remember what they did 2 years ago?" Let them move on and I am sure most of them have learned a valuable lesson. We should all be thankful that no one got hurt.
Will they be punished at home?
Last time I heard something about a football player being in trouble for drinking, the grandfather was going to sue the school if he didn't play. Some punishment!
Why print anyone's name that breaks the law? Drinking underage is breaking the law. This wasn't just a contract with a football coach.
I understand your point. I could see if this wasn't the 1st time they got caught to print their names. Whether or not they are punished at home is not up to us. Knowing the parents of some of them I am sure there was punishment doled out at home. For the others I can not speak. If you are to print the names then make it all of the kids and not just the football players. I do not disagree with the consequences of being off the team. However, they should be able to put this behind them and learn, not have people pointing them out because they saw their name in the paper. Some people would hold it against them and paint them in a bad light because of 1 stupid mistake. We have all learned at one time or another that for each action is a consequence. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they have learned the lesson and move on.
I agree with Pam....
I didn't mean print only the football player's name.. All of them should be named.
You all seem to think this is the first time any of them drank alcohol.
Maybe this is the first time they got caught, not the first time they drank! Think about it.
I don't know how many kids or grand kids any of you have. I have 3 kids and 4 adult grand kids and when any of them got caught at something, it usually wasn't the first time they had done it just the first time I caught them. (:
Thank heavens everytime they got caught it wasn't front page news. I know that I did plenty as a teenager and got away with some of it. Did I need to be in the paper to learn my lesson? NO. It was bad enough for me that my parents might be disappointed in me and that I may have let them down. I just think that we should give these kids the same courtesy and respect that we would want given to ours. :)
To heck with printing their names. They should have been put in a public pillory in the Wal-Mart parking lot for 7 consecutive Saturdays. Then all the rest of us could walk around them, repeating: "Have you learned your lesson yet? Have you learned your lesson yet.?"
I liked the way they did things in 16th century Venice. At the Doge's palace and other places around the city, lion's head carvings had an open mouth where citizens could drop in anonymous notes about the indiscretions of other fellow citizens. Then the Doge's council could read them and give them the appropriate punishment.
yea, that's the ticket.
As a matter of fact two of my kids did make front page in the Mesa Tribune, One ran their car thru a duplex at lunch time when she wasn't
supposed to be off the school grounds. Of course she didn't leave school at lunch anymore as she totaled her Mustang when she went thru the wall. Didn't need to hand out any punishment on that one. Another one for fighting at school and kicked out for two weeks, but he also made the front page as a paramedic doing a great job.
You know I wouldn't trade them for any others. After all they have given me three grand kids and 6 great grandkids.
For you out there that know Vernon, it wasn't him.
And what would you expect the punishment should be for a Payson HS student who rammed through your house under the SAME circumstances?
I think you'd be a bit more kaphitzed in that scenario than you were 18 or so years ago, Pat, I truly do.
So Pat - One kid leaves the school grounds without permission, runs her car through someone's property, causing damage to their property, plus damages her car. You "didn't need to hand out any punishment on that one."??????? Why???? Because she couldn'tt drive the "totaled" Mustang was punishment enough???
Frankly, that's worse than drinking in the forest under age.
At least you're up front about it - but COME ON!!!
When my son was 17 he had an old VW bus and took his friends for a ride during lunch - off grounds without permission - and they came in late to their next class. I was informed. I took away his driving privileges for a full month, PLUS made him write an apology to the parents of the other 3 boys for taking THEM off school grounds and being late to THEIR r next class as well. He never did it again.
He had consequences for his bad choice and poor judgement. What consequence did your kid sustain for HER poor choice and bad judgement?? Hopefully, he/she didn't hurt herself or anyone inside the duplex. Did he/she at least have to work for the money to pay for the damages to the duplex? Just because the homeowner's insurance may have paid for it, I would have had my kid at least earn and pay for any deductible or out of pocket expense they sustained due to his/her negligence!
My intent is less to rag on your kid as I am illustrating the point of bad behavior deserves punitive consequences - something that has been harped upon in this thread regarding the phootballers phoolishness.
Having their names in the paper is not a punitive consequence. Hell, word of mouth takes care of that.
We must be the only ones on here today.
My daughter had a broken wrist. No one else was hurt.
All of my kids paid for their own cars, insurance and gas. She didn't drive because she no longer had a car and she had already paid for her own insurance, six months in advance and she was paid up ahead on car payments. Not only was there an article, there was a picture of her and her car. Then in the next edition of the paper one of the officers on the PD wrote an article about her, like the
Our Opinion in the Roundup. It was about how fast an accident can happen and teen age drivers.
She broke no laws!!! Except Mom's. She had never driven in the rain and her car hydroplaned and spun. I think that is the right word. It was poor judgement leaving the school, not negligence causing the accident.
It is 34 yrs. later and she still will not drive when it is raining.
First you have to explain the meaning of kaphitzed. I can't find it in any of my 23 dictionaries.
Pat, I need to get you REALLY, REALLY, drunk. ;)
kaphitzed = kerphlemped.
No, it's not in the dictionary. I sort of made those words up....call it chopped up Yiddish. I love to hear Yiddish. Wish I could speak it.
If under exactly same circumstance, that student paying for his/her own car, insurance, and gas, not drinking, I would feel the same way. His/her insurance would pay for my house. I would hope they weren't hurt and I would probably say oh s---, wait untill your mom sees this and hope that his/her parents didn't get them a replacement car. Ride the bus or walk.
However in this day and time I doubt that many kids pay for all of this.
In my years of driving, I have been hit by a bicycle. She hit my back bumper. She was about 8. A motorcycle (about 18) hit the drivers side of my car while I was stopped to make a left turn, a car hit mine while I was parked in a parking space on Main St in Mesa. (34) I still had the keys in my hand. One came from a side street and broadsided me. 84yr old driver, and the last one in Mesa in July made a U turn or something in the middle of the block and wiped out the side of my pickup. 16 with just a permit and no one else in the car.
Believe it or not except for the last one, I just get out and look at my car and asked them if they are hurt.
The last one my daughter was driving, the boy asked me if anyone was hurt as I was pretty scary looking since I had had surgery on my nose the day before and there was no bandage on it. I said I don't know but you will be. He took off running for his car, punching in numbers on his cell phone. Then I started laughing and was still laughing when the police got there. I know all of this would make more sense if I could tell it instead of writing it. How did we get from football to car wrecks? Lets start another thread after you tell me the definition for kaphitzed.
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