But can they play football ?


Faye Musselman 9 years, 11 months ago

It's not Spanish they'll need, Pat. It's Chinese. Are you following developments in the global marketplace with American business?


Pat Randall 9 years, 12 months ago

Did anyone on here, or your kids have to pass Arizona Constitution before they graduated from the eighth grade? Thats if you went to school in Ariz. Did you have to know your multiplication tables to at least 12?


Matt Carlyon 9 years, 12 months ago

Social Studies – is usually made up of courses in history, government, economics, civics, sociology, geography, and anthropology. I find it interesting for someone to imply that we should not educate our children about them.


Pat Randall 9 years, 11 months ago

I read somewhere, can't remember where, that Holland was a major business owner in the US. This was a few years ago. Like I said I don't get into global, it is to much fun trying to keep up with things in Payson. You might be surprised at who owns the hotels, and motels in Payson.


Pat Randall 10 years ago

Johnny doesn't even need to read until time for the AMES test. When was the last time you heard of a child being held back to do a grade over? It may hurt their little egos. Classes are being dumbed down to the slowest student and kids are graded on a curve. What a bunch of crap. Lets start with a test with a score of a 100 and grade down from that. If you don't study you don't pass.
Reading writing and arithmetic. Reading includes history and geography. Not social studies, save the whales and sex education. What does being a cheerleader or pom girl train you for? Get an education, get a job, get a life. Support yourself.


Mike McLaughlin 10 years ago


"The latest evidence of the dummification of American life comes from the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, a venerable organization that promotes classical values in higher education. As part of a program to strengthen the understanding of America's history and political institutions -- what it calls 'civic literacy' -- ISI commissioned a survey of more than 14,000 randomly selected freshmen and seniors at 50 four-year colleges and universities nationwide.

"The students were given 60 multiple-choice questions, testing their knowledge of US history, government, foreign affairs, and economics. The results were atrocious. The average freshman flunked the test, correctly answering only 51.7 percent of the questions. The average score among seniors was equally pathetic: 53.2 percent. On a traditional grading scale, scores like those would get an F. Even at the colleges whose students scored highest, the average senior score was below 70 percent -- a D+ at best.

"...'If a nation expects to be ignorant and free,' Thomas Jefferson wrote in 1816, 'it expects what never was and never will be.' If he was right, American freedom is headed for a cliff."

  • Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby

Faye Musselman 10 years ago

That's why the high school senior who can point to New Jersey on a map is valedictorian.

Local K-12 school boards have long been seedling ground for those with political aspirations. Over the past 20-25 years those boards have been taken over with parents with special agendas and those that value touchy-feely learning more important than the traditional hard core Reading, Writing and Arithmetic. Johnny can't read because he isn't taught to excel. He's just taught enough to pass......after all our economy needs those blue colar workers - not everyone can go to college.

A Harvard graduate named Karen Cheney wrote the newest book on Lizzie Borden. It is a disaster. Poor research, what there was of it. Misstated facts, bogus information. Names and dates wrong. Times and locations wrong. Incorrectly labeled photographs. Horrendous. And she's a Harvard graduate.


Reed Watson 9 years, 12 months ago

Some of these posts stink badly of, "I walked five miles to get to my school, in the snow, and uphill both ways!" We've all heard it...

I am currently raising children in this very school system. And, I assure you, my two oldest are smarter than any of you in certain areas. My son can name and describe an enormous multitude of scientific facts about animals all over the planet. And, my daughter is a straight A student on the honor roll every year... Am I bragging...? Darn right I am. They are both also very humble and super sweet kids. Would not intentionally hurt any person in any way. They make me proud in so many ways and they are so much better than their dad!!!

Has there been a shifting of educational values. Sure there has. I used to have to go to the principal's office and get a swat if I engaed in a fight in school. Today, fight on campus, you will be expelled and given criminal charges. Hmmmm... which one is tougher? You act like the children here are not learning anything and are being babied along. Absolutely not true... Both my oldest were introduced to Algebra way earlier in school than I was...

But, if you have to make blanket statements to afford your arguments valor, then I blame it on the enviornments at home. Sweet and simple... teachers in the Payson Unified School District are doing a great job and your children will be educated to the level that they are willing to put forth in effort..... So, if kids today are dumb, it wasn't becuase they weren't offered the opportunity to learn, it is definitely rooted in some other problem or issue... Just MY opinion.



Susan Grubbs 9 years, 12 months ago

Pat, I honestly couldn't tall you if my kids had to pass Arizona Constitution before they went to high school. I do know that there was, at least, a section of time devoted to Arizona history and its constitution.

Reed, today's kids aren't dumb. They do, unfortunately, have to be taught to the test. In AZ that's the AIMS test. No Child Left Behind has left children behind.

You talk about blanket statements, Reed, but you make one yourself about the teachers in PUSD. My kids went all the way through, K-12, in PUSD and I can assure you that not all of the teachers did a good job. In the case of some, they didn't do a good job by a long shot. Yes, there are some fine teachers. Many of the problem teachers left, some of fheir own accord, but others are still here teaching today.

If I had it to do over again, I would not have sent my children to Payson public schools, at least not beyond elementary school. My children are bright and my husband and I were involved parents, willing to do all that we could to help/encourage them academically. You know that isn't the case in every household. Many of my attempts to talk with teachers if there were problems were met my silence - no response. None. Email went unanswered for the most part. In fact, I can name (but won't) two - count 'em, two - teachers who answered phone calls and or emails on the middle school and high school level.

As for kids, sports, and education, as long as parents push their children in sports and not academically the statistics, noted in the first post in this thread, will not improve.


Faye Musselman 9 years, 11 months ago

Matt, I'm certainly not saying those studies you listed in your Oct 4 post are not essential and worthy. I'm saying "Johnny" needs to learn to read FIRST. Then comes all the rest.

National statistics on the effectiveness of our public K-12 educational systems proves the point as to the quality of education our kids are getting and its NO FAULT of the teachers, IMHO.

Barack Obama emphasizes that our kids need to be educated to be competive. I agree. Therefore, they should learn to speak Mandarin Chinese. And I'm not kidding. If I had a school age kid now, I would be pursuing that.

If we are not in the "End Days" (as 41% of Americans believe), then they better start learning Chinese. Just to stay competitive.


Faye Musselman 9 years, 11 months ago

BTW., my two phavorite words in Chinese are:

Dim sum.



Pat Randall 9 years, 11 months ago

I am going to get in trouble for this but, The kids better start learning spanish in the first grade so they will know what is going on in our world?


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