Payson Roundup

Tom_Garrett (Tom Garrett) says…

“terns.”

I don't believe it!

Another typo.

Tom_Garrett (Tom Garrett) says…

Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, says it's only fair to require those who want to lead our country to prove they meet the standards of the U.S. Constitution.

The AZ House Government Committee voted 6-1 last Tuesday to require presidential contenders to prove to Arizona's secretary of state they are a “natural born citizen'' to get their names on the ballot.

What Burges wants isn't a simple matter of someone coming up with a birth certificate. It requires the secretary of state to examine documents proving eligibility and to refuse to list that person on the ballot if there is “reasonable cause to believe the candidate does not meet the citizenship, age and residency requirements prescribed by law.”

The cause of all this is, of course, valid doubts concerning the citizenship of President Barack Obama. Oddly, while the state health department in Hawaii did produce a “short form'' birth certificate for Obama, copies of which are available on the Internet, the original has never been seen. That does not satisfy many people, who feel the American people have the right to see the original.

I will admit it is difficult to understand why that original has never been released. In fact, I can't think of a single good reason why Obama would not do so, thereby erasing the cloud that hangs over his presidency.

Linda Lingle, Hawaii's Republican governor, contends these originals are confidential, and the state health director has released a statement that she has seen the original, but that seems a silly excuse for a step which would clear the air. And what public document is “confidential?” Never heard of one before? Why this one?

As a result ten states are right now in the process of passing “show us the proof” laws.

You know what's going to happen, don't you?

When it comes time for a second term Obama is either going to have to come up with the required proof or his name will not appear on the ballot in states with the new laws.

That's one fifth of the entire nation. No one can win with that kind of handicap!

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

I don't know the laws in other states, but when I tried to get a birth certificate for my grandson at the office of vital statistics in Phoenix they would not let me have it over the counter. Confidential !
Now read the next sentence very careful.

I received it at my address with a copy of mine in the same envelope the next day.

Govt. employees like to show power, waste time and money.

SantaBerry (Bernice Winandy) says…

the President's place of birth hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Once again. Where was John McCain born and what does his birth certificate say?

I have two birth certificates with names of different parents and I bet either one would stand up in court.

SantaBerry (Bernice Winandy) says…

Tom, why are you so reluctant to accept the short form birth certificate? Do you believe that the State of Hawaii is part of a conspiracy to hide the birth place of Obama?

The long form birth certificate contains information that is, indeed, personal —such as the type of birth (natural, ceasarian, etc.) whether forceps were used, the nationality and race of the parents, occupation of parents; education. Why would the addition of this personal information do more to prove the place of birth than the short form?

I have in my possession both my long and short form birth certificate. The short form is authenticated with the seal (as is the long form) of the state? or county? (I don't have the certificates at my present location) in which I was born. That short form was sufficient proof when I applied for a “minor's” work permit; when I applied for a driving permit; when I applied for a wedding license.

Also, I have a question about citizenship. A child born in say Canada of U.S. citizens has dual citizenship (Canadian and U.S.). Do both parents have to be U.S. citizens for the dual citizenship? Would a child born in Canada of a mother with U.S. citizenship be eligible to be president? Guess not otherwise there wouldn't be all this fuss about Obama's place of birth.

Tom_Garrett (Tom Garrett) says…

“Tom, why are you so reluctant to accept the short form birth certificate?”

Who said I was? Show me where I said that.

What I said was I didn't understand why he didn't just show the original and put the whole controversy to rest. If it were me I sure would. Wouldn't you? Just do it and get on with life.

“Would a child born in Canada of a mother with U.S. citizenship be eligible to be president? ”

A child born outside of the United States regardless of where, and regardless of which parent is American, must be naturalized. Period.

“the President's place of birth…”

Was just beneath his mother. Where else?

“Where was John McCain born and what does his birth certificate say?”

Dummy! His birth certificate says, “John McCain.”

By the way, folks, all this stuff stems from the fact that the Constitution slightly neglected to define “natural born citizen.”

Want to have some fun? Go look up the cases, including Supreme Court cases, which have touched upon this issue.

For one thing, try to settle this point in your mind: Why would the son or daughter of an illegal alien be eligible to run for president while the son or daughter of two American citizens stationed in another country on orders of the United States not be eligible? Can you find any, and I mean ANY, logical benefit which derives from that?

And, by the way, is it true?

Tom_Garrett (Tom Garrett) says…

By the way, I found a way two serve two terns. Just pluck them, gut them, rinse well under cold water, rub with butter or margarine, salt and pepper, and place in 375º oven for 35 to 40 minutes, basting once each ten minutes, or alternatively, placing an aluminum tent over separately. To avoid overcooking, ensure that aluminum is not in direct contact with skin. If birds are stuffed increase roasting time to 40 to 43 minutes.

SantaBerry (Bernice Winandy) says…

Tom, you are not correct about children born of U.S. citizens in a foreign country having to be naturalized. Children born of U>S> citizens in a foreign country have dual citizenship.

Frankly, if a short form birth certificate has been produced, why should a person have to produce a long form birth certificate which reveals a lot of personal information which is not necessary to prove where one was born? You seem to feel that Obama should produce his long form.

Tom, I do not understand your 6:06 p.m. March 10 remark. Were you hungry???????????????????:-)

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Bernice if you are serious,
“Want to serve two terns” was the heading of his post which was a typo.
He corrected it in the next one.
Then posted his recipe. My warped humor is rubbing off on him. (:

SantaBerry (Bernice Winandy) says…

Duh. I was so use to someone's typos that I just naturally corrected the word to term. I have now looked the word “tern” up in the dictionary and am completely embarrassed as I use “tern” quite often in crossword puzzles. However, this time the connection was completely lost on me. Maybe I should get a double “Duh.” Thanks Pat for straightening out the confusion.

Ruby_Finney (Ruby Finney) says…

Some of you folks explain to me how a person can have “dual citizenship” .

This has puzzled me for a long time and I have read somewhere that Obama's Indonesian step-father declared Obama a citizen of his country so that Obama could attend school there .

IN any case, I believe that citizens of many countries can be dual citizens and that includes Israel and Mexico along with a bunch that I don't know about. When you take the oath to become a United States citizen, don't you swear allegiance to this country only. How can you have allegiance to another country at the same time.

I believe this is something that should be changed. And I sure don't understand why it is true !

Tom_Garrett (Tom Garrett) says…

“Tom, you are not correct about children born of U.S. citizens in a foreign country having to be naturalized. Children born of U>S> citizens in a foreign country have dual citizenship.”

Sorry, dead wrong. Since one of my own sons falls in that category I think I have some expertise on the subject.

AS to “dual citizenship” there is no such thing as far as the official view of the United States is concerned. We not only do not recognize it, it is wise to be very careful about claiming any citizenship other than U.S. since it can cost you your U.S. citizenship.

It's just fine that some other countries (Israel is an example) allow people who are citizens of the U.S. to enjoy the same rights as citizens of their country, and even will treat them as having “dual citizenship,” but if a person in that category gets careless he may find himself no out of luck, having lost his U.S. citizenship. In fact, you can lose it by just accepting a title of nobility from another country. It is required of U.S. citizens that we swear SOLE allegiance to this nation and no other.

“You seem to feel that Obama should produce his long form.”

Where did I say that? I said, (repeating it again), “What I said was I didn't understand why he didn't just show the original and put the whole controversy to rest.”

Am I not permitted to think that allowing the flak to continue is just plain stupid?

“Tom, I do not understand your 6:06 p.m. March 10 remark.”

That's okay. I don't mind. Anyone care to explain it? Oops! I see Pat already did.

No need for a Duh, Bernice. We all correct typos in our heads. Here's a famous one. Today is the the first day of the new year.

Did you catch it? We often don't.

“When you take the oath to become a United States citizen, don't you swear allegiance to this country only.”

Yes you do, and if you make the mistake of swearing allegiance to another country you lose your U.S. citizenship as of that moment.

Have some fun. I've read almost 200 years of cases regarding citizenship (particularly the term “natural born citizen”). Go take a swipe at it. Fun, if you like twists and turns. As of this moment there is no definitive legal definition of the term by the way.

Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) says…

You stuttered!

SantaBerry (Bernice Winandy) says…

Maybe they changed the law. I have a niece who was born in Canada — she has dual citizenship.

Tom_Garrett (Tom Garrett) says…

“Also, I have a question about citizenship….”

Thought this might help:

A person is an American citizen:

Through birth abroad to two United States citizens

See also: jus sanguinis
A child is automatically granted citizenship in the following cases:
1. Both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth
2. At least one parent lived in the United States prior to the child's birth.
INA 301(c) and INA 301(a)(3) state, “and please one of whom has had a residence.” The FAM (Foreign Affairs Manual) states “no amount of time specified.”
A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of citizenship. They may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have their citizenship recognized.

Through birth abroad to one United States citizen

A person born on or after November 14, 1986, is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[7]
1. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
2. The citizen parent lived at least five years in the United States before the child's birth
3. A minimum of two of these five years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.
INA 301(g) makes additional provisions to satisfy the physical-presence requirements for periods citizens spent abroad in “honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization”. Additionally citizens who spent time living abroad as the “dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person” in any of the previously mentioned organizations can also be counted.
A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of citizenship. Such a person may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have a record of citizenship. Such documentation is often useful to prove citizenship in lieu of the availability of an American birth certificate.
Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law is applicable as it existed at the time of the individual's birth.
For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true [7]:
1. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
2. The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
3. A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

Hope that helps.
Tom