Payson Roundup

mcdevim (Mike McDevitt) says…

OK, OK! No spelling corrections!

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Fred,
Thanks for defending me. I don't always spell it that way but the spell checker didn't pick it out either, I will start spelling it there. (:

mcdevim (Mike McDevitt) says…

“the teachers get a half day off teaching for in service I think it is once a month and all holidays plus a 2 week break in the fall and spring plus Christmas vacation. What a deal and I don't believe thier pay has been cut.”

Maybe that’s all fine, and maybe it isn’t. It’s irrelevant to me.
Just stop spending my money. It really is that simple.

A friendly BTW: “thier” is not an English word:)

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

How many employees, time and money did it take to put the insert together that was in tonights paper ? Fri. Jan 15

fred_franz (frederick franz) says…

Pat, I can't find the insert in the online edition of the paper. If it's not too long, will you post it here?
-Fred

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Fred,
I doubt it is on line as it has 24 pages. It is worth buying Friday's edition of the paper to read the insert . I want to know the cost. Color photographs and all.

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Sure Pat. I am so glad you asked that. Our students in our business marketing and entrepeneurship class sold ads to supportive business to generate funding. The roundup publisher John Naughton also came and spent considerable time with the students. The cost of the publication was $1100. The club associated with the class, which competes statewide and nationally was also able to bank some extra for their competition trips.
And classes such as this and collaborations such as this that create high quality products that obviously caught your attention are certainly in jeopordy without the passing of the override which. Hence, I'm sure you, like Paul on the road to Emmaus will reconsider your “no” vote and begin to promote “yes” to your constituency. By the way, next year they are planning to expand to 32 pages and add some human interest and program stories.
Thanks again for your thoughtful questions:)

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Thank you Mr. Sandoval
Did they do the selling of advertising during school hours when they should have been in a class?
Are you saying the cost was $1100. or that they made that much money after expenses?

DanVarnes (Dan Varnes) says…

Nope. Still, my choice is NO to the override.

Kids and teachers BOTH need to learn a lesson in frugality.

Being thrifty is a good skill to have–and it's one that we're sure to need in the future.

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Pat. It's part of their class. It's marketing and entrepeneurship! I said, it cost $1100 dollars to print. The kids sold enough ads to pay for the printing etc. plus bank a little for their club to travel. What an incredible opportunity and learning opportunity. It's hands on, it's real life. I am so proud of the kids, their teacher Mr. Parone and the program itself.

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Maybe that class should be handling the school budget. (:

fred_franz (frederick franz) says…

So, the kids are taught advertising. I still say no to the tax override!
-Fred

DonEvans (don evans) says…

Can they work a mechanical (non digital) cash register, that doesn't tell them automaticly what change is due a customer making a cash purchase?

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Fred:
The trouble is, grants have very narrow parameters for spending. In other words, the “grantor” is providing funding because they have a purpose in mind. In the case you referenced, it is SRP. Their interest is the quality of the water flowing down the Verde and effects of flow change over time etc. The grant money can be used for purchasing water quality testing equipment and getting our kids out in the field. The result is, in an age of water conservation and environmental issues, we have kids that have get a real handle on water chemistry etc. This once again is real world stuff that hydrologists and environmental engineers use.
The bottom line is SRP will not let us take their grant and put it into the regular budget. I appreciate your questions because it gives me a chance to talk about some of the exciting things that kids are doing!

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Do they still exist? Find me one, bring it by and I'll teach some. I'm pretty sure my physics and chemistry students can't operate a slide rule either. But they can operate a graphing calculator that graphs an x, y, z axis. The point is, I'd rather not prepare them to work at a Circle K from 1970. I'm not going to pretend that counting back change has any bearing on preparing kids for a 21st century workforce. How about moving past those sort of mundane, overused examples and let's focus on continuing to provide our kids with the type of skills that they really need to compete nationally and globally.
Quite frankly, ASU, UofA or Colorado School of Mines didn't really care if my son could count back change but they were very interested that he took two years of calculus at little Payson and AP Physics and AP Biology, and AP History and had a high ACT score (which doesn't include mechanical cash registers). It is those types of higher level skills that give our kids the edge. At the end of the day, we are depending on helping these kids meet their goals because they are the ones who will take care of us medically, econonmically, politically and militarily. Hope you'll keep in mind that the ballot will be in your mailbox by February 15 and you can vote “yes” and mail it back by March 9th. Fred, I respect your right to vote “no”. However, I hope all the other viewers will take note on the dates.

fred_franz (frederick franz) says…

Roy, yes, I agree with the education in the basics and the more advanced courses, Math, Physics, and Biology. I disagree on the school spending on items such as the front page story: “Grant provides tools for teacher to help class”. The field trips may be a nice add-on, but not appropriate when funds are short. These grant funds should be used to reduce the short-falls in the school budget. BTW, if I miss the ballot dates, you will excuse me? :-) :-)
-Fred

Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) says…

Not to make fun of your students Mr. Sandoval but this is a real life true story. One day I was at a local pizza parlor. The power went out and the young man said well we are out of work. I asked why and he said the electric was out.
I reminded him the ovens were gas!
I guess his X Y Z axis calculator batteries were dead :)

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Who decides who receives the grants and what is the criterion? Is it one or two students?
Does this require a special teacher and class? If not do all students taking a particular class participate in the field trips?

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Our Biology and Chemistry teachers wrote the grant. The grant is competitive and SRP decides what school or schools in what district receive the funds. It pretty much does require a teacher with a science background. Students in biology, chemistry, AP biology, AP chemistry and life science have particpated over the last three years. The field trips are working field trips where samples are taken and analysis done relative to oxygen, phosphates etc. Micro and macro flora and fauna are also surveyed and documented. The study range extends from the East Verde headwaters to the confluence of Pine Creek and the East Verde. It's really a longitudinal environmental impact study.

Good story Mike. I don't mind at all if you make fun of my students, if you don't mind if I make fun of people trying to find a mechanical cash register in 2010:) In the meantime, I do have the responsibility to try and provide our kids with superior educational opportunities - better opportunities than I had. Let's think your story through. If I interpret your story right my student had nothing to do with closing or opening. If the registers are online and linked to an accounting management system, the student probably didn't have a choice to make the call. Secondly, are your sure it was one of my students? Or was it simply a young person? To be honest with you, my recommendation to my students is get everything you can from your education here in Payson and get out as soon as you graduate. Go out and get marketable education or training and if you so desire, return to Payson and contribute something that is worth more than minimum wage. If you will help me with that, it would be great!

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Mr. Sandoval,
Please answer my question. Maybe I didn't ask it right. Are there particular students that receive the grant or is it a particular course that is already being taught?
Do all students in that class go on the field trips?

Mike is not as old as I am but I am sure he gets tired of waiting on a computer to speed things up. I know I do. When the electricity goes off every thing shuts down.
Sometimes the cashier can't even count the change after the machine tells them what it should be.
Next they will have cash registers that have to tell them how many nickles, pennies, bills, etc to hand back in a wad to the customer because they can't count it back now.
Students still need basics. Not all computers, calculators, and the Internet to do thier homework that keep them from using thier brain.

Computers don't know every thing. My husband and I have a trust which has the word loving instead of living in the name. Every where I have paper work done, it has to be done over at least once because some darn machine decides the word should be living.
Spell check doesn't know everything.

Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) says…

I wonder how much a mechanical register would cost today IF you could find one at a antique store?
How about a mechanical typewriter? Anyone seen one of those in the last few years?

DonEvans (don evans) says…

Believe it or not, you can find the old typewriters at local garage sales on occasion. If they are in decent shape, I buy them, clean em up, collect or sell again as an “antique novelty”. I have my fathers mint old “Hermes” typwriter that's mounted in it's own carry case with the handle. I watched him as a kid many a night type away. To your point mike, I have been in various establishments where a HS age kid was working as the cashier. The digital registers went down. The mgr says to them just keep a paper tally till they come back on line. The kid couldn't do it, so the Mgr had to take over receiving the bills, and making change. No, not in Payson. How about keeping a bank account and learning to use a check register to balance your account. Typical reply, what's a check register??? Technology does break down sometimes. Lord help us if the grid goes down for any length of time.

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

I had four mechanical typewriters until my last move 3 years ago. 3 portable and one big one dating back to 1922. think it was a Royal. They all worked. Two portables were identical Smith Coronas. One of them was what I used to type in high school. Really old. (:
Had to start scaling down on my collectibles. Still have my 8 track player and tapes.
Also had a 1889 upright Steinway piano. Gave it to a cousin that took piano lessons on it from my aunt when he was a little boy. It was touching to see a 46 yr. old man cry.
I just gave my son an antique Drs. cabinet full of medical instruments and little glass bottles of medicine with glass stoppers in a folding leather case. Some dating back to World War I.
I should have opened a museum.
Well there went the string on schools.
Anyone out there want to buy a large collection of picture post cards dating back to before 1958?

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Who is the override committee?

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Just passing on this information from the override committee:
Meeting: Payson Kids Count Committee to help pass the PUSD Override
When? Wednesday, Jan. 20th, 2010 at 4 PM (we start on time - get you out before 5.)
Where? Payson Senior Center - 512 W. Main Street, Payson
Why? To receive accurate information regarding the Override so that you can talk to as many folks as possible clearly and effectively about it. It is important accurately answer questions and overcome objections. Ballots go out February 1st - there is no time to waste. Too many people don't know about this yet - we need to educate them ASAP.

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Go and find out.

fred_franz (frederick franz) says…

“- there is no time to waste.”
We still have plenty of time to vote “no”.
-Fred

Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) says…

Looks like we will cancel each other out Fred.

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Mr. Sandoval,
Snippy, snippy.
I thought it was a reasonable question.
There are some people I would not walk across the street to listen to.
You have heard the saying lie to me once shame on you. Like to me twice shame on me.
Better I know before I go than to walk out after seeing the committee.

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Pat: I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound snippy. I'll get the list of the core leadership.

mcdevim (Mike McDevitt) says…

I'm a “No” on the override for one reason only:
I'm having a rough time letting any government agency spend or take *any* additional money from me. If you can't make it work with what I'm already giving you, then you're doing something wrong.
News Flash - - We're in the most serious recession since the Great Depression.
Practically speaking - I've taken “furlough” days, a 10% pay cut, and elimination of bonuses.
I'm supposed to cut while you spend more money? Are you crazy? Are you *that* out of touch?… Apparently so.

Randall - -You may be able to get a quick list of override committee members from Harry and Joan Young (committee members) at 928-472-2264.

fred_franz (frederick franz) says…

Shovelhead, you still have plenty of time to change your mind. There have been many reasons posted for turning down the over ride. E.g. this quote from Mike McDevitt: “I'm having a rough time letting any government agency spend or take *any* additional money from me. If you can't make it work with what I'm already giving you, then you're doing something wrong.” E.g. this quote also from Mike McDevitt: “Practically speaking - I've taken “furlough” days, a 10% pay cut, and elimination of bonuses. I'm supposed to cut while you spend more money? Are you crazy? Are you *that* out of touch?… Apparently so.”
-Fred

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Thank you Mr. Sandoval, I thought you would know thier names without having to look them up.
Thank you mcdevim.
I will wait until Mr. Sandoval posts the names so everyone will know who they are.

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Didn't finish my post before I hit the button.
mcdevim, the teachers get a half day off teaching for in service I think it is once a month and all holidays plus a 2 week break in the fall and spring plus Christmas vacation. What a deal and I don't believe thier pay has been cut.
Mr. Sandoval will have to tell us how that works.
The following is an opinion. I think the 1/2 day they sit and visit. I don't know why they aren't smart enough to take it on Fri. instead of Thurs. (: Would give them a longer weekend.
OK Mr. Sandoval you may get snippy on that one.

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

The inservces at the high school are committed to increasing teacher effectiveness. This year for the high school, the first hour is committed to a series on increasing teacher/student engagement during the instructional process. The second hour has been committed to increasing teacher effectiveness with technology. For example, better utilizing Edline as a tool to increase parent teacher, student communication. I take roll and people are required to take part.

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Do they do the same thing each day that they have the in service?
Thanks and Good Night.

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

mcdevim.
It should be relevant to you. If you are taking pay cuts, furloughs and losing benefits and the schools are wanting to spend more money which comes from your pay.
We don't correct spelling and punctuation on here. Our fingers go faster than our brain. (:

fred_franz (frederick franz) says…

mcdevim,
More taxes are relevant to us all. Pat's use of her misnomer must have distracted you from the issue, since you set the facts so well in your 1/18/2010 post. Pat always uses that spelling.
Vote “no” on the override!
-Fred

mcdevim (Mike McDevitt) says…

“More taxes are relevant to us all.”
Absolutely!
I'm just not willing to delve into the minutia of teachers' coffee breaks to halt rising taxes. I don't have either the time or expertise to examine every wasteful cent.
What I *can* do is turn up the heat on the elected and administrators whose job it is to meet their budgets, reduce expenditures, and get results. Make *them* responsible.
I'd be surprised if the PHS principal doesn't already know what's going on during “inservice”. If he/she thinks that cracking down on inservice time management will reduce spending or get better results, that's his business.
*My* business (at least for now), is to advise him of my single expectation – “Stop spending my money!”.

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

mcdevim,
You have to be willing to delve into things or you don't know how your money is being spent and then they ask for more.
Turning up the heat after the fact is what has been going on for years and doesn't do any good.
See the mess we are in with the schools, town, county, state and world.
It was going on before President Obama was ever heard of.

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Wow! I just got back from an override committee meeting at the senior center. There were about 80 people, all willing to to go to work on behalf of our kids. Quite a number of Seniors as well as business people educators and students. It's exciting to see the organized support. Some critical information is that the ballots are coming in the mail and are specific for the school override. Also, that people in outlying areas like Star Valley, Kohl's Ranch, Christopher Creek, Gisela etc. can vote in the override election because they are part of the school district. I'll keep you posted!

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Mr. Sandoval,
I did not see the list of names of the committee you said on the 18th you would post for us to see. Seems you may not really be on top on top of things if you couldn't get them.

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Sorry about that. Joanne Conlin, Craig Swartwood, Barbara Underwood, Harry and Joan Young, Casey O'Brien, Bobette Sylvester, Tina Terri, Carrie Day. I got a sign if you want me to put it in your yard!:)

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

You know where you can put your sign. (: (:

DanVarnes (Dan Varnes) says…

“Sign, sign, every where a sign.” (blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind)

That's a tactic of the PRO school budget override folks that makes me laugh a little. Since the school budget increase didn't pass last time, the school admin and school boosters figured that the voters “just didn't realize” what they were voting for and are now setting out to bombard the area with signs and “propagandize” the issue so that the voters don't make the same mistake again!

I give the voters more credit than that. I think they knew exactly what they were voting for in the last election.

thechief (Chief Hinton) says…

Mr. Sandoval
Thank you for what you do for our students. I am retired and I am voting for the override in fact I already have. I don't get on here much because there is a certain few that complain about everything. My niece is a teacher here in Payson and just got her Master's Degree and worked very hard for it. Our children should have the best education possible. Every senior I know is voting yes . Many of us understand how important education is. Keep up the good work because the override will pass.
It does no good for you to try and explain anything to some of these people. They know everything already and have lived here all their lives and started every business, bar, ect and do not want anything to change. I guess that means they do not want our children to have the best education. Most of us do want the best for our children.
They are our future.

DanVarnes (Dan Varnes) says…

Oh please!

There is not one person that I know in Payson that hasn't had to cut their bills and expenses by at least 10%.

If the PUSD is telling me that they cannot possibly cut 10% of the fat from their large budget, then I DON'T believe it.

If anyone thinks that more money always means a better education, then do a little research and you will find that it does not work like that in the real world.

And AZ is NOT 50'th in school spending. It's 46 as of 2007, the latest data that I could find.

there is no corelation between spending and learning. Everyone must learn to do more with less–School systems, included!

roysandoval (roy sandoval) says…

Chief:
Thank you for your thoughtful message. I am with you. As a parent, I am so thankful for the many opportunities my own kids have had. Though my youngest is graduating this year, I feel strongly that kids coming up should have the same academic opportunities.
I appreciate your efforts to support those opportunities.