Payson Roundup

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Chief,
You need to put your remarks on here as not many people look where you posted yours.
Thanks.

Ruby_Finney (Ruby Finney) says…

Today's article by Pete Ayleshire prompts me to ask a couple questions about the items in his report.

First thing that I noticed was that the $2.1 million dollar figure for employee benefits seems extraordinary to me. This is not wages, but benefits , which is in addition to wages. This does seem to bring the wage scale to a pretty high dollar amount for the area. Perhaps it could be shaved a tad?

Why does the water department cost the town so much. Isn't it supposed to be self supporting? If not, why not?

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Ruby,
After reading the same article I got hysterical laughing. Of course, I am warped. (:

Evans step down?
Blue Ridge will die? Hasn't it been going on for 20 yrs?
ASU gone if Evans leaves? What power.
Street improvements going? Already gone.
Third Fire station gone? Let Chaparral Pines build the one that they made the deal with the Town to build when they were approved.

Mike Vogel has kept his word on things we have discussed. We may not have agreed but he kept his word on what he was going to do.
Mostly hunt ! Joke Mike.

Maybe the voters should not have been routinely approving the higher spending limits every 4 yrs.
Like any govt. the council will spend all they can get. Wanted or needed.

Did any of the dept. heads take a cut in salary or just the employees on hourly wage that weren't making enough to begin with?
Heard on the radio this morning a new employee from Apache Junction was hired to run the Event Center. See anything wrong with that??
Do we need two attorneys when most lawsuits are hired out ?
Why not a simpler way of keeping track of the budget , so even the common housewife can understand?

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

It is at the bottom of the news article. There is a place for comments but I found out long ago not many scroll down there.

Shovelhead (Mike McLaughlin) says…

I have both ballots right here beside me and I just keep struggling with myself on how to vote. I don't think the Mayor is employing a strong political strategy by threatening to quit. That may sway some voters to vote no just to get him out of office. Maybe the council has heard the voters and will look harder at spending on needs versus wants. Why not give them another two years and see what happens. The purse srings are already being pulled and maybe they will be pulled a little tighter.

I guess I just talked myself into voting for home rule.

JohnNaughton (John Naughton) says…

Mrs. Randall, you and I haven't talked in awhile. Here's some thoughts on your post.

“Evans step down?”
That's what the man said. Vogel said the same.

“Blue Ridge will die? Hasn't it been going on for 20 yrs?”
That's correct, a long time coming and now that it's on our doorstep and we have money from the feds we can't spend it. Blue Ridge will go away.

“ASU gone if Evans leaves? What power.”
Article didn't say that… it said, no chance of ASU if Home Rule fails. Yes, that will happen also.

“Street improvements going? Already gone.”
You have noticed the worldwide recession we're in and that budgets across the board have been cut, right? Without Home Rule nothing gets fixed.

“Third Fire station gone? Let Chaparral Pines build the one that they made the deal with the Town to build when they were approved.”
Why should they pay for it? Chaparral Pines is a part of Payson just like your neighborhood.
A third fire station would certainly benefit more than one neighborhood. Can you share with me the paper work on Chaparral's promise to build a fire station?

“Mike Vogel has kept his word on things we have discussed. We may not have agreed but he kept his word on what he was going to do. Mostly hunt ! Joke Mike.”
Yup, what you see is what you get from Vogel.

“Maybe the voters should not have been routinely approving the higher spending limits every 4 yrs. Like any govt. the council will spend all they can get. Wanted or needed.”
Most voters are smart enough to understand how ridiculous this law is. Most voters are smart enough vote on the merits of an issue, not because they like or dislike a town mayor.

“Did any of the dept. heads take a cut in salary or just the employees on hourly wage that weren't making enough to begin with?”
Yes.

“Heard on the radio this morning a new employee from Apache Junction was hired to run the Event Center. See anything wrong with that??”
What you didn't hear or forgot is this part-time employee has lived here for a year.

“Do we need two attorneys when most lawsuits are hired out?”
Good question. What does “most” mean? Do you know the percentage of lawsuits hired out? Could you share your thoughts on what else the legal department does besides lawsuits?

“Why not a simpler way of keeping track of the budget , so even the common housewife can
understand?”
Now that's a good thought. Accountants %$(*&#…. Sorry, Ruby.

Ruby_Finney (Ruby Finney) says…

John,

Your comment is absolutely correct! The budget should be presented in readable form so that even the lowly taxpayer can understand it.

But I want to point out a couple statements you made which need explanation.

When Chaparral Pines was first approved, I believe the agreement with the town was that the owners would participate in building a fire station to serve that area. And if memory serves me, there was some money paid to the town and Rich Underkoffler who was Town Manager at the time, worked some kind of rinky dink deal to use that money to buy a small parcel of land to complete the Community College Campus. I think it is used as a flood control basin and not suitable to build on. This happened before Pat moved back and I don't think she is aware of some of the wheeling and dealing that has happened. The moral of the story is that if you don't use the money for it's intended purpose it doesn't really matter - the taxpayers will pick up the tab.

Your response to “Street Improvements going - already gone.” is that “Without Home Rule, nothing gets fixed.” John, nothing gets fixed even with Home Rule! When I bought property in Payson in 1992, Manzanita street was on the list in #1 position for repair. Unless it has been done recently, nothing other that occasional pothole repair has been done. I think that's about 18 years of Home Rule. The priorities are changed every year and money is shuffled around to do whatever the current group wants done.

Home Rule doesn't cure the problem. Only leadership and citizen participation will do the job.

WantToKnow (Barbara Rasmussen) says…

Only 1 Department Head did not take a cut in pay! That is our Town Manager. Wonder what 15% of her salary would save the town per month? Also a comment on the article about Hellsgate Fire Dept. and their budget woes. Their Chief states this puts him back on a 24/7, what is the big deal about this? All of Payson Fire Department employees are on call 24/7 including the Chief! As far as the upcoming election for Town Council, people should talk to town employees and get their feedback! They will surely tell you who is their “friend” and who truly supports them! Just don't be surprised at what you will hear!

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Mr. Naughton,
Only have time for a few lines right now.
The work of negotiating for Blue Ridge has been working for about 20 yrs. Why all of a sudden do you think if Evans leaves it will all go down the drain? (:

JohnNaughton (John Naughton) says…

Mrs. Randall,
I fully understand you personally don't like our current mayor. That's fine. That's your choice.
However, I find it difficult to understand how you can put the well being of the town in jeopardy by letting your dislike for the mayor taint your understanding of Home Rule and put a knife in the back of the town you purport to love.
Mayor Evans leaving or staying has nothing to do with losing Blue Ridge. The feds put up $10 million dollars to start this project. If Home Rule fails the town will not be able to spend this money and it will go away… plain and simple.

JohnNaughton (John Naughton) says…

Ruby, no, you are absolutely correct. Manzanita is a mess.
However, without Home Rule not only will Manzanita continue to rot away so will everything else. Without sufficient funding, all the leadership and citizen participation in the world will not solve the issues this town will face.
How's all in Oregon…. it's almost berry season!
John

Ruby_Finney (Ruby Finney) says…

John,

I'll get around to a letter to you off the Forum soon, but for now, I really want to make the point that There has always been plenty of money to do a really nice job of running the Town of Payson. The problem is that there is no requirement in the Charter that the town follow through with projects once they are budgeted and approved. For this reason, every time a new Mayor or Council is elected, they simply disrupt the planning list to put their own pet projects first in line. Bingo - this is why Manzanita is still not rebuilt and probably never will be. It is the reason that the anticipated for the next five years state gas tax money was “borrowed ” in order to improve McLane from the High School to Main Street. Every penny of State gas tax money received from the state for the next five years had to be applied against that loan (plus 5% interest I think) and not a penny went to other street repairs or improvements.

If you go back over the street building and repair project list in each of the past 15 years , you'll find the same ones in the list, year after year. But new plans get done pretty quick. On a slow news day, send a reporter to get copies of those annual plans from the january planning meeetings and do some comparing. Be a real eye opener.

As to berry season, you are really jumping the gun, John. We are into mid February now and just beginning to get an occasional sun break. Berries are at least 3 months away, although my blueberries look like the leaf buds may be thinking about opening.

If we could get a new legislature and governor, everything in Oregon would be coming up roses!

patrandall (Pat Randall) says…

Mr. Naughton,
My liking or disliking of anyone doesn't control my vote. Thier actions do.
Do you really think I have the power to influence any one's vote to put the well being of the town in jeopardy? If that is what you are thinking, I am so proud you think that much of me. (:
I understand Home Rule. I also understand the town has been spending money they shouldn't have for many years on things that weren't needed only wanted.

I know how to stay within a budget and how to run a business, while being a common housewife. Made money from all of them.
Not bad for two people raised here in the hills of Pine and Payson that neither finished the 10th grade. So much for the Over ride at the school !

Parent's, schools, and politicians have to start acting responsibly.

I will try to find all the papers on Chaparral Pines. They should be a matter of public record if they didn't disappear like the ADOT and Payson street study that was done several years ago.

Common housewife was a pharse first used by Evans when he was going to explain something on the radio.
Not going to talk to you anymore. Don't want to get in trouble.

Pat

DanVarnes (Dan Varnes) says…

Pat,

There are waaaaay too many people out there that are afraid to really speak the truth for fear of offending someone. Thanks for telling it like it is and not worrying about “hurting someone's feelings.”

I don't know of any person in this entire town that hasn't had to cut back their spending by at least 10% in the past few years. If somehow they didn't cut their spending, then they're now probably looking at a HUGE bill from their credit card company.

It'll be a good lesson for the students of today: Learn how to spend LESS money and cut MORE waste before telling everyone that “the world will end” unless you get to take a bigger bite out of every Payson resident's income.

rtnaz (Rex Hinshaw) says…

As part of the development agreement with the Town , Chaparrel Pines paid a sum of money…I believe $125,000.00 to Payson. It was supposedly for building the 3rd firestation. Ruby is probably correct on what happened to the funds.