Knock It Off

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Editor:

I have received word that if even one more item of gun control legislation of any kind comes out of Congress, every gun owner, every gun dealer, every gun distributor, and every gun manufacturer in America is going to hold a “Burn Barrel Day” in the city square and burn every 4473, every statement, every invoice, every shipping manifest, every bound book, and every record of any kind pertaining to the sale or transfer of any and every firearm in the United States of America.

If Congress and the Obama administration does not want to totally lose control and oversight of all firearms in the United States of America, I strongly suggest they knock it off.

Donald L. Cline

Comments

Ted Paulk 1 year, 6 months ago

Not quite sure where the Payson city square is, maybe in front of Walmart? Aren't you the same guy who "received word" that one college had received $1 billion in federal grants? Be that as it may, Keep me informed on when the burning begins as I want to watch the Chief of Police and the Fire Marshal spray these nut cases down and then haul them off the jail. A "thinning of the herd" would be good for Gila County.

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 6 months ago

Ted, Would it be your ideal to have a "thinning of the herd" to the degree that it left only people who were as "enlightened" and accepting of only your views ? You needn't reply. The answer is obvious every time you post.

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don evans 1 year, 6 months ago

Hey, give Ted a break. He just cainnnt help it. After all, he's an Obamanista at heart......

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Ted Paulk 1 year, 6 months ago

Thanks for all the compliments. The same people who want to keep the assault rifles to defend themselves against the "Government" remind me of N. Korea's Lil' Kim. You keep writing and making inflammatory comments, "Don't come to my house unless you're ready to die taking my gun", "you'll never take me alive", "I'm going to burn my registration on the city square and noone had better try to stop me". Well gents, if these crazies keep on shooting their mouths off, they may have to back up their nonsensicle rants. All of your heros Wayne LaPierre, Ted Nugent, Dick Cheney, George Bush, et.al. are DRAFT DODGERS. They are free to spend someone else's life to look tough and if you guys here in Payson buy into it...that's your right. My right is to point out FACTS not bull. And yes Ron, I would like to see the mentally defective taken off the streets...Semper Fi.

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 6 months ago

Well then Ted, we can agree that those with mental shortfalls should not be privileged to exercise their rights under the Constitution. And being of the progressive/Socialist mentality, that would apply to anyone who does not think precisely as you do. We have heard this approach so much recently from people who support the present administration's efforts at destroying the very Constitutional Republic your swore an oath to "protect and defend". Does the phrase "clinging to their guns and Bibles" sound vaguely familiar? By the way, it was two Democrats that put us firmly into the conflict in which you served and placed all those names on the "Wall", Kennedy and Johnson. So I would caution you about inferring that it is purely conservative leaning politicians that " are free to spend someone else's life to look tough". And Semper Fi to you as well.

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Ted Paulk 1 year, 6 months ago

Oh Ron, you need to check your history..It was Ike who got us into Vietnam...read up for yourself, and it was Tricky Dick who made contact with the South Vietnamese telling them not to make peace with the north until after the election so he could get them a better deal, resulting in an additional 27,000 dead Americans. Please, please re-read the letter from Donald Cline that resulted in my input...where he threatens that the administration will lose control of all the firearms in America. As to my stand against the people who would try to overthrow our government 9I believe it's called anarchy) , here's a scenario for you: Imagine that you are a Fire Captain in, oh say, Anaheim, California, and you get a call that there are a group of armed individuals setting fires in barrels in front of Disneyland, or perhaps the "town square". Would you refuse to respond because these guys were exercising their 2nd Amendment rights? I'm curious. You make me sound like a radical, which I'm not. I don't believe for one moment everyone should agree with me...but the folks who call Obama, "comrade" and "Hitler" do not get my respect and I think they have a screw loose. My BS in Psycholgy didn't teach me that term, by the way.:) Stay strong. Ted

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don evans 1 year, 6 months ago

BS in Psychology. Now that's what I call an Oxymoron.............

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Dan Haapala 1 year, 6 months ago

There are ten reasons that America came to greatness in the World as we 'knew it'. They are called the Bill of Rights. For thousands of years before 1776, Government ruled.

When men Declared that God made us free and that we would rule Government it was a totally new concept. Not that it hadn't been wished for and tried, but it was the first time men had thrown off the shackles of a ruling class and said "I am in charge, not you" That Declaration of Independence gave way to the greatest events of the era of the dawn of awakening. Nothing since has been as great except perhaps the winning of Independence and the Constitution of the United States Of America. The Constitution made clear we were free from tyrannical control but added ten areas to make certain that the people remained in control from Governments inherent desire to control. No matter how some would choose to interpret the words they remain clear and the words 'shall' and 'not' and 'infringed' and in the case of the First ammendment it states clearly that the law shall not make any law impeding the free exercise of Religion. That said, Every person serving in a position of power, granted them by the people who are the United States of America, must before taking office swear an oath to Obey and defend the Constitution of the United States. Every Soldier, Sailor, Airman,and Marine takes that oath. Every town councilor and Mayor takes that oath, Every County official takes oath, every state official.....you get my point. When an official attempts to redefine the rule and oath...then they are no longer deserving of respect and if the attempt to circumvent the law is extreme then they should be removed from office for violating their oath of office. I understand who's in charge of America. It's me. And all the 'me's' that choose to except their responsibility. America belongs to the average person not the elite who believe they are better than us. Ted if this comment is in anyway reflective of your opinion of what a radical is....then move over, radicals are coming to take our country back.

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 6 months ago

Ted,

" As to my stand against the people who would try to overthrow our government (I believe it's called anarchy) , You do realize of course you are talking about people who represent the same views/attitudes as our forefathers who took steps to undo our connection to King George. I know you have probably read this before, but it comes directly from one of the documents Dan referred to:

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Like it says, we should not take such a course for "light and transient causes" and I feel we should use the "legal" system whenever it is possible. But when even our own government decides to ignore the laws of the land, it seems to me a bit disingenuous for someone to propose that "The People" should be held to a different standard than the very government elected to represent them.

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 6 months ago

And I recognize that you are not a "radical", simply someone who chooses a different approach than many when it comes to responding to those with whom you disagree. You often use the same approach you point a finger at them for, undeserved name calling. It is that approach that causes the debates/discussions to degrade into name calling, invectives , harsh words and then nothing of any value comes from those discussions. Don't have an issue with your views as you and I and so many others "stood the line" to protect and defend every persons right to voice their views. Like your response to my Viet Nam point, which by the way if you re-read what I said "two Democrats that put us firmly into the conflict ". I made no inference that America had no involvement in that country prior, but never to the degree that Kennedy and Johnson committed us to. Read up on Operation Schoofly. That was my time and I have friends whose name are on that "Wall" because of that involvement which was years before the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that Johnson rigged to put us in the fight "Big Time". Trust me, and I know this applies to Dan as well, I was intimately involved in that conflict and I am well aware of it's history and genesis. As always, Thank you for your service, Semper Fi!

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Ted Paulk 1 year, 6 months ago

Great thoughts from you guys and I apologize for my lack of polish: Ex-SGT from the Army and ex-SGT from Riverton, Wyoming PD kind of takes the smooth edges away. Just want to add, this is not 1776, the British are NOT coming, we are not talking about single shot muzzle loaders and lastly...there is no one out there to "take our country back" from...it is still ours; has been since the Revolution, and I resent those who threaten to disrupt our society by threatening to overthrow a legally elected government...whether you like them or not. America is great and I feel lucky; no I know for a fact, that my family and I are very lucky to live here. Those who continually compain about how their rights are violated make me ill. I have asked time and again, "What rights have you lost under President Obama". I have yet to get an answer, a valild one anyway, so far.

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 6 months ago

Ted, Not sure your precise age, but can you honestly say that the current state of affairs in this nation is better than it was , say 50 years ago? And I'm not referring to the obvious wrongs that were in this nation's past. It was right that we addressed those issues, but we didn't need to throw the baby out with the bath water. I know I'm not putting forth anything that you don't already know, but this nation was founded on individual liberty/responsibility. Socialism, especially the type being introduced into this country is an anathema to those founding principles. It is a resistance and disagreement with that circumstance that lies at the root of why so many are angry and frustrated with the direction the nation is being taken in. You may very well think Progressive/Socialism is the perfect type of national environment for you and your family. You would not be alone in that view, as we saw in the last two elections, a lot of Americans are onboard with that type of "Change". If you haven't already, you might pick up a copy of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" and read it. If you do not recognize the "rules" put forth in that book in today's socio/political environment, then I suppose you and many of us will never agree on much of anything. It is that ultimate entrenchment and division that will trigger another "civil war" if there is not some resolution that ultimately returns us all back to viewing ourselves as Americans, not as Progressive/Socialists, Conservatives, Libertarians, Hispanic-Americans, German Americans, Irish Americans, Italian Americans, African Americans, ad infinitum. Currently the "Government" we were cautioned about by those that gave us this nation, has now become "The Government" and not "We, the People". If you see it differently, by all means enjoy the ride. But there are many who are not going quietly into the night as this country is "remade". That is simply not the nature or character of patriotic Americans, regardless of their political stripes.

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Ted Paulk 1 year, 6 months ago

Still sounds like you're suggesting the overthrow a legally elected government; mine, and I don't want to see it overthrown by foreigners or CITIZENS. By the way, I am 67 years old, raised in rural Texas before I joined the army and saw the light of living outside the South. Worked my butt off pretty much all my life. My second major besides Pysc is History...Mr. Evans, please go ahead and make another crack if helps you feel better about yourself, so I am familiar with past events as well as current ones. Besides being a cop for a while, I taught Law Enforcent at Central Wyoming College for a semster, while serving on the PD. I am not a socialist even though you gang of 5 or so keep trying to brand me as one. I voted for Tricky Dick before I knew better. I voted for Lil' Bush, again before I knew better. I never vote the straight party ticket and am always looking for the better candidate. I liked John Huntsman a lot, but he wasn't radical enough for the conservatives of 2012. I donate money to the poor and to candidates I like. I donate to the Timeout Shelter, Payson Kids, and the Humane Society, among other charities I deem worthy. I feel empathy for those poor people who have suffered and are still suffering,,,kinda like being a Christian, and I don't make fun of people who need food stamps or medicade. I daresay most of you who ridicule them; and me, are receiving GOVERNMENT benefits in the form of Social Security or Medicare...as am I. You all seem willing to attack me and paint me as an ignorant man, but then you take massive offense if I fight back...too bad.

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 6 months ago

Ted,

Again, I would point out that I don't take "massive offense" if you voice your views. It is when you start slinging the invectives and slurs that you elicit the same response in return. As you and I converse more, it is apparent just how much our life paths parallel one another. I was born in Abilene ,Texas and moved to Colorado at about 10. Like you, even as a youngster I could not identify with the racism and bigotry I saw "in the South". But as I gained more exposure and experience, it became pretty obvious, to me anyway, that those are NOT traits limited to Southern Rednecks. Pick your culture or race, they are all racist and bigoted in one fashion or another.

And on another point, regarding " receiving GOVERNMENT benefits ", Social Security(which I paid into but cannot draw) is a contract between the citizens and the government, not a handout as is welfare, food stamps, free cell phones, etc. None of this stuff that "the government" hands out to those in need and many who are simply freeloaders, is free. Those working and paying taxes, especially income tax, pay for those things, not the government. So, in essence, every person who pays taxes is contributing to the welfare of those in need, through the government. Anyone who cares to research the data can find out how many are part of "generational welfare", those that have literally dropped out of the workforce due to generous "government" benefits, etc. This nation was never intended to become a "nanny state". Quite the opposite, it was supposed to be governed by a government that "governs least". You want to know where we are going with this current approach, look at Greece.

We may disagree on a lot of things, but I think ultimately we all want what is best for this country and it's citizens. We simply will not agree on who gets us there or how they get us there.

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Ronald Hamric 1 year, 6 months ago

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government," I think you and I agree that we would prefer a legal approach to correcting "the ship of state". Even those with whom I am diametrically opposed are even now suggesting that the entire Constitution be re-written for these "more enlightened times. So even detractors are of a mind that the current circumstance is becoming unacceptable to either side.

" and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." I see that trait right here and now. But I can also see the growing divisions as to what form of government we will have. I don't know where the "line in the sand" is, but I certainly accept from history, ours and others, that there surely is such a line. I also don't know what the trigger point will be, but there is one and when it is reached, all bets are off. Simply look at history. The Great American Experiment is just as vulnerable and susceptable from destruction within as have been all empires before. I wait and watch.

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Ted Paulk 1 year, 6 months ago

Ron, not everything I write in here is directed at you. You seem like a pretty sharp fellow in your writings. I also think you must have done well in your job to make Fire Captain. You probably don't need social secuIrity as many of my retired firefighting friends from Dallas to Mesa seem to receiving more than I do SS...but that's beside the point..I was directing that comment to the old haters who get government checks but don't want anyone else to get them. I do hope you're wrong about growing divisions creating lines in the sand...you say "Simply look at history". I reply, "Yes, and what I see is the Civil War and race riots and what those did to our nation". Peace, compromise, golden rule, love your neighbor, compassion are what we need to be looking at. Of course there are people commiting welfare fraud, but I also read that the tax fraud committed by the rich costs many times more than welfare costs. I subscribe to a magazine called "The Week" and in the latest edition it stated, "A new poll found that 30 percent of Americans believe that a "secretive power elite" is conspiring to rule the world , and 15 percent believe the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to TV broadcasts." Now that is the kind of thing that I find scary.

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