It’S Going To Be A Nightmare

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Editor:

There was a woman on one of the networks a few days a go. She said she had been a drug counselor for 30 years and every single one of her patients said they started out on pot.

I know this is true because when I was in charge of field operations for the largest rebar company in the Southwest, my boss was involved in the ex-convict/felon rehab program. We put men to work placing rebar, a job where your past record didn’t hinder you from making a living. I was directly in charge of these men. Everyone of them told me they started on pot, and after a while it took them five or six joints to get a buzz. So while loaded on pot they lost all fear of getting hooked on the hard stuff, so they did it.

Almost every single one of them was in prison for doing crimes to get money for the expensive drugs.

So all of you who think making it legal is a good idea (except for medical use) are going to see more people on the hard stuff. Hide and watch.

I’ve seen it and I know. You’re going to look back and say, “What have we done?”

Dell Owens

Comments

Mel Mevis 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Dell,

What about the other group. Those who use pot and went on to become lawyers, doctors, teachers, preachers and a hundred other professions. I know a lot of good people who have used pot and some still do. I believe its their choice and should be respected.

That said personally I find pot, alcohol and cigarettes ..... all bad for your health, both physical and mental. But you know what, it's a persons choice.... and you or I should not have a say except when it affects us personally.

I bet a lot of those poor souls you spoke about also came from broken homes, a failed school, or abused relationship. Where is your outrage about those things?

Personally I want a nation that is free, let people make their own choices.

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Ronald Hamric 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Mr. Mevis,

"Personally I want a nation that is free, let people make their own choices." I concur wholeheartedly with that statement, but would add another stipulation. When people make their own choices, then they, not the taxpayers should pay the costs that come with those choices when they go bad. I too saw first hand in my 29 years working the streets in SoCal just what the downside to pot is. As you stated, not everyone ended up like the folks I had to deal with, but the numbers that have had their lives ruined due to drugs, many who began with pot, is far greater than many think. And it is the taxpayer who is most often picking up the tab in costs and crime for those who didn't become lawyers, doctors, teachers and preachers.

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Mel Mevis 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Mr Hamric

How many DWI's did you see? Do you want to go back to Prohibition?

Personally I have lost 3 relatives to DWI's accidents and over five close friends. I have a relatives who have ruined their life by drinking. I don't personally know anyone killed by a driver impaired by pot, but I know it happens. I'm struggling to think of anyone I personally know who ruined their lives due to pot, I can't. I know it happens.

I would rather not waste money on enforcing laws that the majority of citizens do not want. I would rather tax the product and use that money to control the problem ..... as we are doing with alcohol.......

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Meria Heller 1 month, 3 weeks ago

It's useless arguing with those who still believe in prohibition and discard the benefits. I found that out the hard way with old timers who still believe "reefer madness" but applaud your sensibility.

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Ted Paulk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

I believe booze is a much more dangerous "drug" than pot...statistics show this is the case.

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Ronald Hamric 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Mr. Mevis,

I am always perplexed that those who argue in favor of pot legalization use the position that because we have one substance (alcohol) which has terrible social negatives, that we should therefore add another. No, I am not proposing a return to Prohibition, and you are being snarkey to even suggest that. You even make the claim "to control the problem ..... as we are doing with alcohol......." where you then pointed to your own personal experience of having lost relatives to DUI's. How's that "control" working out for you Mr. Mevis?

I have stated my position on this issue many times before . I would support legalizing ALL currently illicit drugs. Make them as cheap as possible, as available as possible, and make them as potent as possible. Our national drug problem will soon resolve itself. I came to this position after 29 years of dealing with people who made poor choices regarding substance abuse (drugs and alcohol) and have completely lost any sympathy I may have had towards those who make the personal decision to take that route. Like you, I am tired of spending money fighting a battle that is largely due to the realities that permeate mankind. I am equally as tired of paying for the results of those people's poor choices and bad decisions. It really all comes down to personal responsibility doesn't it? And being personally responsible yourself for the choices you make and not expecting others to bail you out of a predicament you chose to put yourself in. One truly has to have been living under a rock to not be aware of the risks that come with drug, alcohol. tobacco abuse, so ignorance is no excuse at all!

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Mel Mevis 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Ronald,

Guess I'm no more "snarkey " than you. "How that control working for you" Really ........ Lets see three cousins with out a parent, a husband now widowed. A good friend dead thirty years to soon. Do we need more education on alcohol, less glorification in commercials and advertisements.

I do believe in education and accountability for actions. People who use substances that alter their ability to safely operate vehicles and machinery that can harm others must be held accountable. This means we need to make adjustments in our legal system.

I agree with you on legalizing everything, do not agree with making it a free for all. We will need testing and assurance that products are what they say. For what good it does we will need education, just like alcohol and tobacco. Then it needs to be taxed to cover the costs of regulation and future social costs.

Always believed in Darwin's theory of evolution, most of the people I knew in the 70's and 80's who abused are gone or will be shortly. Most of them worked hard and partied harder.

I personally do not expect a large increase in use, just a better handle on the numbers. Drugs are available today to anybody. Bet even a retired cop could find a joint in just a few minutes if he asked around.

When one in three drivers is currently impaired and people should always drive defensively with this in mind now and that would not change. You may even see a reduction in impaired drivers if we educate and enforce.

One of the significant savings will be in incarceration rates. We also should see a reduction in organize crime until they move to the next quick buck. It will make our borders safer. It will allow the discussions to move from the moral issue to the health issue.

It will not change my personal life, my biggest exposure to alcohol is a single glass of wine with Saturdays dinner. I didn't inhale, just passed it to the next guy. Our goverment will have more money to waste somewhere else so I don't expect to see a reduction in taxes......... But legalization is still a good idea.

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Ted Paulk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Twenty nine years of dealing with drugs and alcohol? I thought you were a retired Anaheim Battalion Fire Chief.

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Ronald Hamric 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Yeah Right, when I started my career I started at the top. Not! I spent many of those years as a firefighter/EMT. You know, the ones that actually respond when someone calls 911.

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Meria Heller 2 months, 2 weeks ago

We either live in a country that truly believes in personal freedom or we don't. Nothing is more dangerous or addictive than legal pharmaceuticals. All school shootings were kids on antidepressants or psychotropic drugs. As for the cost to taxpayers for putting people in jail for victimless "crime", it's over $35,000 a year. What anyone does in their personal life without harming others is their own business. I think some people have seen Reefer Madness too many times. Maybe you could use a drink? Be careful who you judge folks...

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Ronald Hamric 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Mr. Mevis ,

We probably agree on more aspects of this issue than we disagree on. If you had really paid attention to my original post, you will note I did not come out against legalization. I simply agreed with the Op as to what this nation can expect when legalization occurs, and it will. I find your optimism in our government rather naïve, since you mention all the areas where the regulation of alcohol has failed to stem the social negatives, and then you propose that they can actually add drugs to the equation and things will get better. Sorry, I have no trust in our current government to do anything other than mess things up even more.

Ms. Heller,

"What anyone does in their personal life without harming others is their own business." And you will actually defend the position that folks who steal and rob to support their drug habits are not "harming others". Not to speak of the effects a drug abusive parent has on the rearing of their children. Were people to be availing themselves of drugs in a vacuum, I would probably agree with you, but they are not. They are still out there on the streets, in our schools, our places of business, pretty much all over the place. If you actually think there are no impact on others then we can do away with drug/alcohol abuse centers, drug/alcohol counseling, and associated medical care for those that finally took it too far and are having the taxpayer pick up the tab to save their lives. Just where did you purchase your rose colored glasses as I could certainly use a pair.

Botton line, as I said to Mr. Mevis, people are free to abuse any substance they want as long as I and the rest of society DO NOT have to any way, shape or form have to shoulder the costs of their abuse. Should be clear enough!

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Meria Heller 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Stealing does hurt another, I'm not stupid so don't speak to me as if I am. Someone smoking a plant (that's what cannabis is) doesn't harm anyone. All those rehabs you mention should be where they are referred, not to jail where you can get any drug you want. Go sit outside Uncle Herb's for a while and look at the elderly and infirm that are being helped there. Medicine has failed them. This is the last I will post on this board, as I don't deal with haters.

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Rex Hinshaw 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Meria, I would never call Mr. Hamric a hater. I just think he is taking a practical view ,through his experience , towards addiction. I can look at your , Mr. Hamric's , and Mr. Mevis's comments and find commen ground. Please continue to express your opinion....there is no hate in this thread.

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Travis Livengood 2 months, 2 weeks ago

All you needed to say was pot is a gateway drug, and my response would've been: That's a bunch of 1950's ignorant lies. Here's a suggestion, hop a plane to Colorado, spend a week smoking it, and let me know if you suddenly find yourself craving that needle or the desire to start stealing (As Mr. Hamric claims.)

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Rex Hinshaw 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Travis, That is not what Mr. Hamric claimed. That statement indicates you are unable to understand the written word. Next time try to find someone to read it for you ....and then explain it to you.

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Ted Paulk 2 months, 2 weeks ago

Now Rexie baby, that sure sounds a lot like "hate" to me!!

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Ronald Hamric 2 months, 2 weeks ago

If anyone is familiar with dispensing hate, that would be you Ted. Rex is right. I would put my 29 years of dealing with drug abusers up against Travis's experience and that of Colorado since it's "social experiment" is relatively new. You ask any hard drug abuser and they will tell you that their first "drug" was pot. Give it a couple of years and then we can revisit the issue. If the instances of increased hard drug use do not materialize, I will accept that I was not accurate in my assessment of what's coming. Want and example of one side effect of legalization, simply ask the businessmen in downtown Seattle.

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don evans 2 months, 1 week ago

Haters? The new liberal socialist accusation word for anyone daring to make a public moral value judgment based on their belief ideology and life experience. It ain't called dope for nothing. Recently in the news, it appears that Sweden, Netherlands, are eliminating their liberal public drug use laws. That's after decades of tolerating open public drug use without any social consequences. Now I wonder why that is??? If cannabis brings medical pain relief to some people, then let legitimate physicians prescribe it. Not a, I can't get a job anywhere else in the medical field MD on the payroll for an Uncle Herb's and getting their cut of $$$ for insomnia complaints. What a sham. A good portion of third world economy's rely on drug production to feed the wants of Americans trying to escape their self created reality.

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Kim Chittick 2 months, 1 week ago

Personal experience: I know someone here in Payson who has been growing and smoking pot for as long as I have known them; nearly 17 years. They also freely admit that they have been doing it for much, much longer than that. They are in their mid-50's. Neither has much motivation. Neither has a "real" job, as neither can pass a drug test, nor do they really want to work; as it is so much better to simply work just enough to have enough cash to pay for gas and the things that food stamps don't pay for. As a matter of fact, they have always been referred to as "the lazy stoners---". Neither has a debilitating, painful illness; yet as soon as the possibility of medical marijuana cards came about, they were first in line. They even informed me that I "could probably get a medical marijuana card for my migraines". I laughed at them and told them that Tylenol is fine. Now, this couple receives AHCCCS, and gets food stamps; which I was informed, "are much better now, they give you a card, like a credit card, to help preserve your dignity". Listen, if I am paying for your frickin groceries, I could give a rip about your dignity!!!

So, in the last few years, the male has been becoming increasingly more angry, hostile and adversarial. Escalating in temperament. Recently, he had some dental work done (yep, on our dime!!!) He was given a narcotic pain reliever, which he took after (admittedly) smoking marijuana all morning. He was shouting profanities, challenging people to fight, drove while under the influence, refused to follow orders from the police, etc.

Now, I have a couple of questions...if pot is so good for pain relief, what was the need for a narcotic pain reliever? And why is it that people who start smoking pot "casually", you know, once a week or so, perhaps one joint a week, soon require increasingly more product and more increasing use to get the same effect?

I will say that I am in total agreement with Ron, legalize it and let them have and use all they want, the principle of natural selection will take care of the rest.

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Pat Randall 2 months ago

Mr. Paulk, Evidently you don't have a clue about fire depts. the things the employees do and how many lives they save. They are the first ones to arrive on a 911 medical call and in Mesa on a call where a dead person is found, they are first on hazard material calls. Drowning calls were the worst for my son because they were usually young children. That was the days he stopped by Mom's to shed a tear or two.
The police don't do it. I don't think they even carry a $10.00 first aid kit. And wouldn't know what to do with it if they had one. Not knocking the police depts. just stating facts. As Ronald said you start at the bottom and work your way up. My son worked for the Mesa Fire Dept. started out at the bottom worked his way to EMT, Para-medic and Hazard Materials teacher. You have to go to school for all of them. And in Mesa you had to pay to go to school to become a Para-Medic. The city did not pay for it. You went to college for classes, did time in emergency rooms, spent time working in the County mental hospital, and in a burn unit. They also buy and cook their own food. Clean their buildings and take care of the trucks and other equipment. Their lives depend on it. I know a lot of people think firemen sit on their rear and read books or whatever until the alarm goes off. WRONG. If you think any of that is easy or fun you have another think coming. Don't ever talk bad about fire dept. employees !! They put their lives on the line every day just like the police.

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