Wednesday November 25, 2015
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I used to have the same "compassion" for these self destructive types, but I will tell you up front that after 29 years witnessing and dealing with this issue on the streets of SoCal, I must say that I no longer feel ANY responsibility for what these folks have done to themselves. As I have said so many times on this forum on this topic, were it my decision I would legalize ALL drugs, make them as cheap as possible, as pure and strong as possible, and as readily available as possible,tax the snot out of them and then let human nature run it's course. For those individuals that readily ignore ALL the information put out there about the dangers of drug abuse/use and STILL make the conscious decision to go down that path, plus all the one's who simply cannot face the world without some mind altering substance put in their body, I would let them exercise their free will choices and decisions. The only caveat I have is when they crash and burn, and they will, take responsibility for YOUR choices, and don't come to me to pay for your stupidity. Doesn't mean I might not reach out and offer that help to someone I think would actually benefit from it, but that would be MY free will choice and not one forced on me by hand wringers who want to solve all the world's problems using other people's money. Like the taxes on alcohol that the Feds take in via its consumption, you can bet they will NOT spend one penny of the taxes collected on the sale of drugs to pay for the treatment of those that may TRULY want to clean themselves up and become productive citizens. If we have learned anything from the prohibition of alcohol, then it is a small step to applying those same lessons to currently illicit drugs. I continually hear folks implying that since alcohol is as abused as drugs and it (alcohol) is legal, drugs should be likewise. "Just who does the Federal government think they are telling me what I can and can't do to MY body!" They have brought me over to their side. Clear enough for you?
I think the whole "victimless" crime thing is a huge misnomer. If "We, the People" or anyone other than the person themselves, have to pay for the end result of THEIR personal choice to involve themselves in illicit drugs, then there really are "victims". And as Pat said, pretty much everyone associated with a drug abuser gets "victimized" if they really care about the person. Drug abuse is not something that simply falls out of the sky and lands on some unsuspecting person. It is a personal decision or choice by those that take that road. Part of our failure in the War on Drugs is our total preoccupation with excusing those decisions and choices and viewing the addicts/drug abusers somehow as the "victims". At what point does society accept that "THEY made their bed, let THEM lie in it"? I would agree that incarceration is only a temporary fix for their problem, and that, in and of itself creates victims, since someone pays dearly for that incarceration.
As I've posted so many times on this site regarding the "college venture", it was the NOT putting something of this magnitude and impact before the very voters it will have the greatest effect upon, that I disagreed with. Yes, growth is inevitable, and especially with a place with the attributes of this region. But ANY growth that will have such "character" impacts as this venture will, certainly should warrant the approval of the voters. Other developments, industry and housing ventures are certainly within the purview of those elected representatives of Payson to accept or deny without voter approval, No problem. That's what they were elected to do. But something of this scale will definitely have an impact on the whole region, for better or worse. Based on my experience, I must say I am sceptical. But those who have concerns and have expressed them here, that includes me, seem to be in the minority. I think if one is a WASP (White, Anglo saxon, Protestant), they would do well to adjust to being the minority in most things. This is NOT the America you and I grew up in. It's come to that.
I think it goes without saying that this venture was a monumental undertaking from the start. As happens with such things, there are often "adjustments" which have to be made from the original concept. Who among us has not stated that we hoped to do such and such but found out the realities precluded us from doing what we originally committed to? You all know my biggest issue with this venture, but I am not going to nitpick those that are behind it because every jot and tittle did not unfold the way they had originally hoped. Something is coming for that site, like it or not. Let's all hope the positive picture painted by those behind it prevail over the negatives so many in Payson and the region are concerned about. I wait and watch.
Sadly that has been an issue from the beginnings of Fire Departments offering Paramedic services. We referred to those folks as "system abusers" as all too often their problems fell far short of being an "emergency". But the fly in the ointment so to speak, is that many of these folks were indigent or close to it and felt that the 911 service was their best option. Due to their situation, how does one charge them or encourage them to use other services? I could write a book regarding the things I was witness to in that career. No easy answers.
Thank you for the integrity you bring to your calling. I have a granddaughter who is currently working on getting into your field of endeavor. I must admit to a certain apprehension due in large part to being very concerned with what I've witnessed over the last 50 years in Public Education. If she has your dedication to principles, and I think she will, some young students will benefit. Otherwise she will simply be another cog in the wheel, and the sham will continue.
I have to say, the types of incidents such as that which happened to Mr. Frewin have a major impact as regards those of us who have often taken the position that the problems with our Public Education System are NOT money driven. Anyone who can add and subtract recognize that funding has a BIG impact on the quality of education that students deserve. But us frequent "naysayers" regarding the financial plight of the "system" are acutely aware of the political aspects of that "system" and are resistant to continue to throw money at a problem that is NOT tied to funding, but political agendas. We KNOW there are capable and dedicated teachers out there with the proper motives for plying the career they undertook, but it simply cannot be denied that the "bureaucracy" even they have to work under is rather questionable as to its motives. Want to kill a snake, cut off the head first. Simply chopping up the body will only prolong the problem you face.
Doesn't this problem all come down to the literal enforcement of our immigration laws? One thing that is supposed to be true about our "Justice System" is that it is "blind" as regards emotions. Just actions/results based on the facts and evidence available. I am really perplexed at the message those in Washington are sending to mainstreet America regarding our "nation of laws" status. We break those laws and all he** comes down on us. They on the other hand can ignore, do selective enforcement, or subtly alter said laws to fit their political agendas. Is it any wonder we see more and more of our fellow citizens also flaunting this nation's laws? If the "enforcers" won't abide by them, why should anyone else? Setting aside those that have sinister motives for leaving their homeland to immigrate to another, who with a soul cannot appreciate someone's attempt to better their lot in life? Wouldn't each one of us if we found ourselves in such a place? All that said, if we are going to ignore SOME of this nation's laws, then anarchy will soon follow, as who justifiably can deny another the same right to pick and choose the laws THEY agree with and ignore the one's they don't? Houston. We have a problem!!
At some level, this whole drug issue, if it has solutions and it does, seems to be real non-issue with those that we depend on to deal with such matters. IF (a big "IF") they were truly desirous to rid us of this scourge, they have the means, money, and authority to do so. The thing I see missing is the motive. I try very hard not to get drawn into conspiracy theories such as "9-11" was an inside job, those trying to "cure" cancer won't or else they would be without a job, the person(s) who actually killed Kennedy were on the grassy knoll, etc. Even if one could provide absolute factual truth to substantiate those "theories, how would any of it help us deal with TODAY'S/TOMORROW'S problems facing this nation? I am one who wants to look forward, and only look backward to glean the wisdom offered through past events.
I get your point now. I sense we were debating the semantics of a couple of words. I was coming from the position that the "founders", being strongly influenced by the Christian faith that was prevalent at their time, must have approached their role in creating our founding documents by looking through a prism affected by their faith. When you inject the word "context" then I have no argument with that view. We agree that they made very serious efforts to have those documents remain as religiously neutral as possible. The results of that effort are one of the aspects that made America the unique experiment it is. But I would still argue that whatever "principles" a person has which helps define who they are, is based largely on their individual, personal experience and accepted knowledge. Faith or the lack of it is certainly one of those strong influences in those "principles".
plural noun: principles
a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.
"the basic principles of Christianity"
synonyms: truth, proposition, concept, idea, theory, assumption, fundamental, essential, ground rule
As well, I enjoy these discussions and hope that they never descend into personal attacks as is the habit in many debates over contrasting views these days. As I said in an earlier post, I am still willing to learn new ideas and concepts.
Yes, I think because it is such a deeply personal thing, one's faith is rarely identical to another's. How one arrives (or doesn't) at the acceptance of any faith/belief is from exposure to so many things in their world. All that gets filtered through each person's individuality, their acceptance or denial of certain tenets of a particular religion, and since we are all unique individuals each ends up with a distinct and unique belief system. Certainly they may share many similar views regarding a particular "religion", but ultimately, they typically have many separate positions on certain technicalities of those religions. Chalk that up to "Human nature".
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