Robert Jones

Robert Jones 2 years, 2 months ago on Keep and bear arms


Not to pick on the LDS, but as an example only, their belief in the age of our planet is in direct CONFLICT with known science. You won't get far with me attempting to convince me the Grand Canyon is not as old as any minerologist or geologist can prove it is through the testing of materials exposed by the erosion.

Belief must be based on truth, not hokus pocus theories. Otherwise it becomes little more than witchcraft and ritualistic mumbo-jumbo.

There is righteousness!! I'm in total agreement. I just don't share your "faith" that that righteousness ONLY emanates from some religion. I'm willing to bet that somewhere there is someone who is righteous but that does NOT believe as you do, or that even may be a NON-believer in the Judeo-Christian practice of belief.

As churches are being emptied year by year, I sure hope so!!! May you be blessed with serenity and happiness. Live well and do good work. It's all we can really do.



Robert Jones 2 years, 2 months ago on Keep and bear arms


First I want to Publicly apologize to you for tactics I took in the zeal of debate with you about a year ago. My actions were beneath my level of normal behavior and unacceptable!!!

I sincerely beg your forgiveness and assure you I learned something very painful about myself. I like to win far far too much! I will not repeat such actions I assure you. It has humbled me greatly. While we may disagree, I have no doubt about your honor, or your sincerity of belief!

Now, if I may ask? Where the dickens did you get the idea that I believe righteousness does not exist? My Mother was very righteous, bless her soul. I'm quite sure she resides with the maker. That was her belief and I'm quite certain she lived it daily and righteously.

While I do fail miserably on occasion, I myself, try to live a righteous life as I define it. I won't steal, I don't lie, I try to practice kindness, etc. I readily admit I have some trouble with toleration.

I will also completely agree with you that IF all of us actually walked in careful observance of those commandments given to Moses all of our societal problems would melt away.

I sit on no throne. I have no power at all, other than the power to speak, walk, and set an example to my family. That happens when I succeed or fail in walking correctly. BOTH are examples.

I deny nothing of the spiritual. I just admit that I (personally) long ago LOST my ability to have faith in dogma. Of any sort. My spiritual issue is "lack of faith". Not In the creator perse (sic) but in HOW to worship. How to understand what is God's truth vs. what is some long ago group of men's twisting of God's intent for their own personal aims of control over the masses. It is my inability to believe in the religion espoused by men in all these churches and assorted gathering places.

I am an infidel. It is NOT a pleasant reality to know that, but it is true. I was raised VERY religious (pentecostal) and saw so much hypocrisy that the result was a complete lack of faith in the dogma of belief. Not just personal hypocrisy. I'm smart enough to understand that that is inevitable and everywhere. But indeed, hypocrisy of belief itself, within the dogma. The creator is NOT going to be in conflict with what we know to be scientific fact.

(please see next SHORT post)


Robert Jones 2 years, 2 months ago on How the right helped the left gain totalitarian power

Mr. Sims,

I will not comment on the immoral person that was in the WH before Mr. Bush. While HE was in office (enjoying that hot tub and those cigars) I was trying to raise young girls, and instill proper values, morals, respect, etc.

needless to say He didn't make that task any easier. It got so I didn't want my daughters to watch the dag gone news in the evening. So sad!!

As to George W. My gut feeling and my held opinion IS that He is a very affable fellow. I'm quite sure I'd rather hang out with him than Obama for instance. I don't mean that as an insult to Obama. IF I wanted to play basketball I'd prefer Obama.

I think to just visit with, chop wood with, barbecue with, or have a beer with, Bush would be swell.

BUT, you need to really investigate his adult (I could care less about his college shenanigans, drug use, whatever) history. He failed in the Oil Business, he failed at this, that, and seemingly, every business venture he attempted. If not for that silver spoon he was born with, we'd have NEVER heard of the man. Certainly his successes in the private world of enterprise would NOT have elevated him to the stature of potential leader of the free world. Heck, he even traded Sammy Sosa away (when sammy actually could still play--before he hit the steroid aided 66 HR's) That's just a bit of humor, pardon me. I know, very little humor.. :-)

Mr. Bush is, IMO, (as you indicated) an honorable fellow who just got completely dominated and overshadowed by the "men in the shadows" while in office. Guys like Cheney. Plain and simple just not smart enough for the job.

Almost the complete opposite of another very honorable (and honest) President we had (Jimmy Carter) who, while very very intelligent, just couldn't figure out HOW to "work" effectively in the cesspool that is Washington DC.

Just a tidbit for you to go look up. On this disaster we face as a country (our Nation's huge debt!!). Check out just who it was that exploded our deficit and multiplied (by many times) the National debt. You'll find, if you go look, it was W's daddy!!!

History shows me that it is the Republicans that have always mangled our economy NOT the Democrats. Do a google search on the debt by timeline. Then do a timeline of who governed when and compare the two. You'll see what I refer to. It is a complete fallacy to believe that the Republicans have been better at handling our economy. Quite the opposite is actually true.



Robert Jones 2 years, 2 months ago on Transition Town comes to Payson

Mr. Hamrik,

I need to admit that any comment I made regarding "extremist" views posted by yourself was NOT based on just this post and this thread. I've been reading (if not posting myself) your views ever since you started posting again (apparently after a long absence).

My comment you refer to, was based on an aggregate view of your many posts. Quite a few of them (in my opinion) containing (rather) extreme viewpoints. Admittedly, many of them seem to emanate from your religious viewpoint, which I would defend to my dying gasp your right to hold, or believe as you see fit.

What I (sometimes) think you fail to understand is that I would give the same "freedom" and "right of belief" to a Hindu, or Buddhist, or (yes, even) Muslim. AND to the unbelievers as well. They also have the right to NOT in this Country.

On that we should all agree, no???

As to your comment touching on the media.

Here's what gripes me about the right-wingers.

THEY keep claiming the media is all progressive/socialist leaning, unprofessional manipulators of truth, AS IF there were no right-leaning media trumpeting their views. That is complete nonsense!!! There are far more right-wing "talk radio" programs than left. I won't list all the shows or names, but start with Rush (doofus) L, add in Glenn Beck, M. Reagan, and go from there.

My distaste of Fox network is based on the evil of its ownership (a NON-American intent on espousing his OWN philosophy) and the fact that Fox is the very first (that I am aware of) national network that makes NO pretense at journalistic objectivity, EVEN while they parrot (over and over) the ridiculous claim that they are "fair and balanced". They are neither!!! Nor is MSNBC to be completely fair.

I remember when journalism had ethics!!!! And reporters did their level best to keep their own viewpoints OUT of the story. Walter Cronkite (or name your own dead journalist that you have respect for) is absolutely rolling in his grave over what our national media has become.

BIASED reporting should NOT be the norm. Unfortunately the 4th Estate, like so many of our other institutions has completely lost its moral compass. Why (did I hear you ask???), It's simple, really..............MONEY!!! Greed!!!

Corporate owned media interests have become too large, much too dominated by the need for profit, and has expelled the journalistic values NEEDED within the important 4th Estate. We no longer have an independent 4th Estate, which we need, precisely to KEEP us informed ABOUT the goings on of our governments (ALL levels!!)

they have become lapdogs to the ruling juntas (State or Federal)!

Keep thinking, but try to make an attempt to actually GET the other sides viewpoint. You might find out we are NOT the "other side".



Robert Jones 2 years, 3 months ago on How the right helped the left gain totalitarian power

Mr. Sims,

We have total agreement on Mr. Bush. The fact is he just wasn't up to the job. Not enough intellect and common sense in my view. His entire history is marked by underachievement and mediocrity. You see, I am truly an independent. I'm appalled that people vote for EITHER of these two dominant parties. Neither has the intent of representing US, the people!!!



Robert Jones 2 years, 3 months ago on Transition Town comes to Payson

Mr. Sims,

Thank you for the wish of blessing. I wish you the same. Those of us strong enough to stand up for our convictions (I include you and I, and others on the forum) are in need of really listening to each other and understanding each others views.

I suspect we'd find we agree on more than we'd ever dream. Americans NEED to pull together all the stronger as the "powers" (both RIGHT and LEFT) keep trying to keep us divided and bickering.

That is precisely HOW they keep control.

Stay informed but TRY to gather info from ALL sides not just Fox and like minded sources. They have as much of an agenda as the "other" side.



Robert Jones 2 years, 3 months ago on How the right helped the left gain totalitarian power

Very well stated. And extremely disturbing!!

Where are the usual right-wing commentariat in response to this letter??

Hamric, Evans, Sims...........the silence is deafening.

One thing though. Mr. Ottmer, Please tell me more about this RFID chip. Does my Arizona drivers license HAVE such a chip??? And how was this enacted (IF so!!) without public awareness??? I just examined my drivers license and can see no evidence of such technology. Please, Please advise me. IF that chip is embedded, I (for just one citizen) will destroy my drivers license and operate my vehicle illegally from then on.

My Model T doesn't go fast enough to get pulled over for speeding anyway. Plus, I'm old. Won't need the bleeping thing that much longer at any rate.

The public needs informed on this RFID thing-a-majig.

It just goes to show you..........we HAVE met the enemy They pretend to be our salvation. They changed their name from Tea-baggers to the Tea Party BUT, They remain dangerously wrong and the real enemy amongst us!!!



Robert Jones 2 years, 3 months ago on The world’s best salesmen

Is that bleating I hear???

Mr Hamric, you have my "sympaties" as well. Life appears to have dealt you a bitter hand.

I wish you godspeed as you proceed in your world. May we meet up in the only utopia that our future holds for the both of us, Heaven! I don't think it can come soon enough for the next generations. They seemed to have rejected our world and your viewpoints soundly.



Robert Jones 2 years, 3 months ago on Keep and bear arms

Mr. Foil,

Please correct me IF I have misconstrued your meaning.

So you are saying that the same God (the Creator of this universe and globe, Adam and Eve) who issued the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" is the responsible party for my "right" to own my guns????

Just what WAS I supposed to do with that gun then? Caress it? Sit on it??? How about worship it?? Oh wait, I know he didn't want that. He instructed me to worship HIM!!

Join me in prayer for our country to regain the wisdom we have thrown away!!



Robert Jones 2 years, 3 months ago on Transition Town comes to Payson

One last (admittedly) not so gentile (or nice) comment. Then you may attack away without reprisal.

I'd (also) bet that IF things ever got "dicey" and we citizens were required to stand up and defend the constitution with our lives, you two would be some of the first to disappear.

My 60 years on the planet has shown me that that is the usual actions of loudmouths when push comes to shove. When trying to understand why we, as a people, are so divided and "at each others throats", try taking a look in the mirror in the morning. Your parroted rhetoric is a large part of that problem!!

Good day sirs! and Good luck to you both. You'll need it when facing your eternal judgment.